Martin Shooting in Florida

[peternap]

Maybe Muldoon but here's an original opinion.
We're going to hear a lot more about it and in addition to being a battle cry for anti gun legislators....it's going o be a very racial summer.

The Blacks are working themselves up in a fever and groups like the Klan are loving it.

[dug]

First I'd like to suggest that anyone who wish this story would go away, or are just bored should avoid clicking on this topic. I admit that it riles me some for a couple of reasons. I have been cursed from birth with perhaps too much empathy, and I can imagine myself in a similar situation involving my son, who is just a few years away from his 17th birthday. Of course my deepest grief would be for the loss of my son, but I would also have a hard time accepting that a man (perhaps a maniac) is walking the streets free and clear without the scrutiny of a thorough investigation and a fair trial. Without that it is one mans word and one eye witness account (who didn't witness the whole event) against my son's story, one he could never tell. Trevon's family deserves more.
By the way, Trevon's girlfriends recount of the phone call just before he was shot should carry every bit as much weight as the eyewitness account, which if true would be very telling evidence but I haven't heard it mentioned here.

Secondly, if a precedence is set where an armed man can instigate a fight, and I don't think there is a doubt that Zimmerman instigated this encounter, and then shoot that person and walk free based entirely on on the shooter's word we are one small step from legal vigilantism, if not already there. Individuals may be brilliant and steady but people can exercise incredibly poor judgement, which is why some laws and regulations I grudgingly accept as necessary.

[NM_Shooter]

You can bet that Zimmerman is under 10X more scrutiny than anyone else in the past 10 years.  With the amount of international attention, this is going to be completely examined. 

I'm sure that they will correlate the cell phone records against the timing of the shot fired in the 911 call. 

Trevon's family deserves truth and fairness.  So does Zimmerman.  Equal.  Nothing less, nothing more.

Irrationally biased empathy serves no one in situations such as this. 

You have no proof that Zimmerman instigated the fight.  Zero.  None.  It is purely speculation and emotional response. 

Zimmerman broke no laws in following, approaching, or speaking with Martin. 

We are not privvy to much of the information... and that is exactly how it should be.  Lock down the data, let the grand jury do its job, and then let it come out in court if need be. 

How many times will we allow the media to play us like fools?   Didn't we just learn a recent lesson about this with the Gates / Crowley incident?

[NM_Shooter]

Here is another image of baby faced Martin. 

I wonder why we are not seeing this one on all the posters?

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/second-trayvon-martin-twitter-feed-identified/

[dug]

O.K., so I guess I'm a fool.

No proof at all? How about the 911 tape? Clearly Zimmerman was following him, and then confronted him. Was his gun concealed?  I don't know. I do know that a number of things that could logically occur in a 17 year olds mind at that point including fear, adrenaline, machismo, stupidity, etc.. Martin very well may have ended up turning aggressive and giving Zimmerman more than he could handle but my point is that that Zimmerman was the initial aggressor, and there seems valid evidence to support that.

Irrationally biased empathy? That is your opinion and you are entitled but it doesn't necessarily make you right. As far as the media playing me for a fool, most that I've heard has been broadcasted from AM radio heads who all but proclaim Zimmerman a hero so I suppose it hasn't worked so well for them in my case.

[fishing_guy]

Bruises take days to form.  He was treated by paramedics for a few hours before he was taken into police custody for questioning.  I can't imagine a good parametic would leave him bloody. A grainy security video wouldn't show much.  I would be more interested in the paramedics report.

We were on Vacation this past week and a kid fell off a lounge chair onto the cement deck.  Even after the paramedics got through with him you could tell...
When we allow private citizens to take on the roles of police and allow police to take on the role of prosecuter/judge/jury(Impoundments), you are asking for trouble.  There is a reason we give authority to police and checks and balances against those same powers.
This was a bad situation gone totally wrong, even is the kid in the "hoodie" was up to no good.  The appropriate authorities should have been notified and they could have taken care of the problem.

[NM_Shooter]

Give me the exact evidence that you have for what Zimmerman said or did to Martin.  What evidence do you have that shows that Zimmerman was aggressive and anything less than polite?  Perhaps he went up to Martin, asked politely for Martin to explain himself, and caught Martin during a bad case of the pissed-offs?

Did the 911 call capture the full dialog between the two? 

What exactly did he say or do to Martin which provoked Martin to pounce on him, and provide a reference to the data that exists as of your last post.... and I will retract the "irrationally based empathy" comment and provide you a heartfelt apology. 

Unless you know the details, how can you express rational empathy for one but not the other? 

My response to all of this nonsense, is aggravation at how quickly people jump on the popular bandwagon, and how easily they are led by the media, race, political alignment, whatever.  People, especially liberals, follow their gut rather than their head. 

I shudder to think that they are routinely on juries.  What is the quote?  "....they know so much that isn't so".

This is a horrible situation for all involved.  What appears to be two hotheads, one gun.  An absolute recipe for disaster.   

[astidham]

First I'd like to suggest that anyone who wish this story would go away, or are just bored should avoid clicking on this topic. I admit that it riles me some for a couple of reasons. I have been cursed from birth with perhaps too much empathy, and I can imagine myself in a similar situation involving my son, who is just a few years away from his 17th birthday. Of course my deepest grief would be for the loss of my son, but I would also have a hard time accepting that a man (perhaps a maniac) is walking the streets free and clear without the scrutiny of a thorough investigation and a fair trial. Without that it is one mans word and one eye witness account (who didn't witness the whole event) against my son's story, one he could never tell. Trevon's family deserves more.
By the way, Trevon's girlfriends recount of the phone call just before he was shot should carry every bit as much weight as the eyewitness account, which if true would be very telling evidence but I haven't heard it mentioned here.

Secondly, if a precedence is set where an armed man can instigate a fight, and I don't think there is a doubt that Zimmerman instigated this encounter, and then shoot that person and walk free based entirely on on the shooter's word we are one small step from legal vigilantism, if not already there. Individuals may be brilliant and steady but people can exercise incredibly poor judgement, which is why some laws and regulations I grudgingly accept as necessary.

Very well said dug.

[Ernest T. Bass]

My response to all of this nonsense, is aggravation at how quickly people jump on the popular bandwagon, and how easily they are led by the media, race, political alignment, whatever.

That hits the nail on the head IMO.. People are upset because the media wants them to be, and they think they know all the facts because they follow the media..

[Pox Eclipse]

Zimmerman broke no laws in following, approaching, or speaking with Martin.

We don't know that.  If he tried to restrain Martin when he said "What are you doing here?", or brandished his weapon, it is assault.   We don't have enough information to conclude whether Zimmerman did or did not break the law.  I don't know, and neither do you.

[Windpower]

I have broken my nose at least once -- there was a lot of blood and my nose was quite swollen and distorted within minutes and stayed that way for a couple days

my head has contacted concrete at a fair velocity a couple times and the bumps were almost instant and they stayed swollen for hours and sometimes days.

My whole point is that there is more than enough evidence to bring a grand jury

Why was this not done immediately when people's memory was clearer and there was still physical evidence of the incident -- if Zimmerman's head was being smashed into the concrete there would have been DNA evidence, or blood spatters from his broken nose -- for example, these items would lend some credibility to Zimmerman's story

When cops can decide one's guilt or innocence 'on the spot' we have a seriously flawed justice system

[dug]

When cops can decide one's guilt or innocence 'on the spot' we have a seriously flawed justice system

Amen!

[StinkerBell]

I have listened to the tapes and the things I do want to point out does not determine if the boy was shot legally or not. When Zimmerman was talking to the 911 operator with the description and such the 911 operator asked where the suspect was. We hear at that moment the car door open as Zimmerman gets out to follow...at this point, this tells me that Zimmerman spotted the kid in his car and was following as he could in his car, no different then I have when seeing somenthing suspicious in my neighborhood....So, we hear the sounds of a car door opening and hear a little heavy breathing...seems to me that Zimmerman got out because he was trying to provide the whereabouts for the 911 operator and he probably thought at that moment the 911 operator was relaying that message to the cops....BUT, then the 911 operator ask that question (beacuse he realizes that Zimmerman has gotten out of the car at that point and is on foot in pursuit) and you hear in the guys voice a slight resign and agrees to stop.  Just something to consider....

[NM_Shooter]

We don't know that.  If he tried to restrain Martin when he said "What are you doing here?", or brandished his weapon, it is assault.   We don't have enough information to conclude whether Zimmerman did or did not break the law.  I don't know, and neither do you.

You are right.  I should not post anything that projects his innocence either.  Let me clarify. 

All we know based on 911 info is that he indicated that he was going to follow Martin.  We don't know that he spoke to him, tried to restrain him, brandished a weapon (very highly unlikely, IMHO), or did anything threatening. 

In a public place, unless you are under a restraining order, it is not illegal to follow and approach someone in a civil manner, ask them what they are doing and where they are going.  You can even be a jerk about it if you choose to.  This is not illegal. 

We just don't know the details. 

[peternap]

  You can even be a jerk about it if you choose to.  This is not illegal. 

Thank the Lord!

[Woodsrule]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-to-do-internal-investigation-on-zimmerman-segment/2012/03/31/gIQAc4HhnS_blog.html?hpid=z6

Gotta watch those evil, right wing media sources! Oh wait, this was NBC trying to whip up the frenzy. At least they are launching an investigation into how this occurred. I'm not weighing in on the guilt or innocence of Zimmerman - it's way too soon to begin doing that, but I am trying to draw attention to the fact that some in the media are trying to paint this as a racial incident. It may be or it may not be, but NBC has some "splaining to do.

[NM_Shooter]

NBC made a minimal gesture at making an apology.  Their portrayal of this incident probably accounted for most of the racial vehemence that has occurred.  I would not be surprised to see Zimmerman sue NBC.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/post/nbc-issues-apology-on-zimmerman-tape-screw-up/2012/04/03/gIQA8m5jtS_blog.html

Meanwhile, stories such as the following get little to no mainstream press.  What if the man (who was beaten into critical condition with a hammer and then dumped in the woods and beaten more) had defended himself before being beaten?

Bet we would have heard that story.... "Another racist man shoots and kills two young carpenters on their way to Homes for the Homeless build".

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2012/4/2/two_teens_arrested_i/

I want to see Obama, Sharpton and Jackson step up and comment on this, starting with what sort of paternal resemblance these teens might have.

I'm tired of a world wide media that does not simply report, but draws conclusions and presents their "story" as a representation of their belief.  I suspect that it has always been that way.

[Squirl]

I have noticed some of the outrage that some people have expressed at the individuals grand standing on this or using it for financial or political gain. 

When I heard "I stand here as a son, father, uncle who is tired of being scared for our boys" on the radio by the head of the NAACP in response to the Martin shooting, I was outraged.

I live in the eastern half of Pennsylvania.  In my media sphere is news from the Lehigh Valley, Philadelphia, New Jersey, and sometimes New York.  I see the most horrific acts of violence on African American children every time I turn on the news.  There has been a few in depth reports on who the murder victims are.  From memory, almost 95% of all murder victims in the area are men. 90% of those are African American. 80% are under 25.  Many are children.  The same day I heard that quote I had heard about 2 African American teens (17 and 18) shot 30 times with a fully automatic AK-47.  No arrests.  No protests demanding police or federal resources.  No Al Sharpton, no head of the NAACP calling for justice.  Everyday hundreds of our boys, that have committed no crime other than being born poor and in the ghetto, are gunned down in the streets in clear cut first degree murder  and these same people don't even bat an eye.  Horrible.   

[peternap]

Showtime!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/george-zimmerman-to-be-charged-in-trayvon-martin-shooting-law-enforcement-official-says/2012/04/11/gIQAHJ5oAT_print.html
George Zimmerman to be charged in Trayvon Martin shooting, official says
By Sari Horwitz, Updated: Wednesday, April 11, 2:46 PM

Florida special prosecutor Angela Corey plans to announce as early as Wednesday afternoon that she is charging neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman in the shooting of Trayvon Martin, according to a law enforcement official close to the investigation.

It was not immediately clear what charge Zimmerman will face.

Martin, 17 and unarmed, was shot and killed Feb. 26 by Zimmerman, who said he was acting in self-defense. Police in Sanford, Fla., where the shooting took place, did not charge Zimmerman, citing the state's "stand your ground" law.

Corey told reporters Tuesday night that she would hold a news conference about the case within 72 hours. A news release from her office said the event will be held in Sanford or Jacksonville, Fla.

Benjamin Crump, who is representing the Martin family, said this week that Corey's office had asked where Trayvon's parents would be each day this week. They arrived Wednesday in Washington for a civil rights conference organized by the Rev. Al Sharpton, where they spoke to reporters.

Sabryna Fulton and Tracy Martin, Trayvon's parents, said they would not comment on the charges because they had not been personally notified. They scheduled a press conference for 5 :15 p.m.

Earlier reports that Zimmerman's lawyers said they did not know where he was did not bother Trayvon's parents, they said.

"We do have faith in the justice system. When it is time to arrest him, they will find him," Fulton said.

The announcement of a charge against Zimmerman would come a day after Zimmerman's attorneys withdrew from the case, citing their inability to contact Zimmerman.

Lawyers Craig Sonner and Hal Uhrig on Tuesday expressed concern about Zimmerman's emotional and physical well-being, saying he has taken actions without consulting them. They also said they do not know where Zimmerman is.

"You can stop looking in Florida," Uhrig told reporters. "Look much further away than that."

Corey said Monday that she would not bring the case before a grand jury, which was expected to convene this week. She said her decision to forgo the grand jury should not be viewed as an indication of whether charges will be filed.

Corey has indicated in recent weeks that she might not need a grand jury to bring charges against Zimmerman.

The lawyers said they stand by their assertions that Zimmerman acted in self-defense when he killed the 17-year-old, who was unarmed, but they acknowledged that they formed their impressions without meeting Zimmerman.

© The Washington Post Company

[peternap]

When this started, I was certain he was going to be convicted no matter what. I was also certain the social unrest and political consequences would be bad.

Seeing some of the new evidence, I've changed my mind somewhat. I think he'll be acquitted. It's oo early to tell about political fallout but I still think it will be bad.....

I keep reading these stories though and I stand by my belief that this is going to be a big summer.
It's just a matter of time before some white fellow gets tired ob being beaten and unloads a shotgun in the crowd. Then all hell will break loose.

http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2012/apr/23/man-beaten-mob-critical-condition-ar-3659891/

MOBILE, Alabama --

Mobile police need your help to catch a mob that beat Matthew Owens so badly that he's in critical condition.

According to police, Owens fussed at some kids playing basketball in the middle of Delmar Drive about 8:30 Saturday night. They say the kids left and a group of adults returned, armed with everything but the kitchen sink.

Police tell News 5 the suspects used chairs, pipes and paint cans to beat Owens.

Owens' sister, Ashley Parker, saw the attack. "It was the scariest thing I have ever witnessed." Parker says 20 people, all African American, attacked her brother on the front porch of his home, using "brass buckles, paint cans and anything they could get their hands on."

Police will only say "multiple people" are involved.

What Parker says happened next could make the fallout from the brutal beating even worse. As the attackers walked away, leaving Owen bleeding on the ground, Parker says one of them said "Now thats justice for Trayvon." Trayvon Martin is the unarmed teenager police say was shot and killed February 26 by neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman in Samford, Florida.

Police canvassed the area, but did not find any suspects. They're asking anyone with information to call them at 251-208-7211, Crime Stoppers at 251-208-7000, or text a tip to 274637 and include the keyword CRIME 411.

[Squirl]

When they dismissed the grand jury and charged him with 2nd degree murder with an information, something stunk.
A grand jury can indict a ham sandwich.  Why not go with that?  It protects the prosecution and holds an air of legitimacy to the accusations.  It makes me think either the prosecution believed that they couldn't get to the second degree murder charge by running it by a jury of his peers or they simply didn't want to wait.  Even after charging him, they could still supersede with a grand jury but they aren't.  Which leads me to believe they think there isn't enough there for the second degree murder charge they charged him with.

I have only seen criminal informations used in crimes that were very clear on their face, usually misdemeanors, or a plea was expected or worked out ahead of time.  This is second degree murder carrying a life in prison sentence.  I don't know the state laws of Florida, but that is on the verge of a fifth amendment issue.
5th amendment: "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury"

Smart move on the prosecutor's part.  She based the information on the Martin's mother testifying it was Martin calling for help on the 911 tape.  This would get the grieving mother on the stand as a witness when there would have been no other way for her to testify because she wasn't there.  I assume the defense will move to disqualify her as an expert witness about Martin's voice.

If he is acquitted, whatever the costs of wrongful prosecution and attorney's fees will be less for the government than if a riot broke out.

[peternap]

I don't think there's any way in the world to keep a riot from breaking out Squirl!

[Tickhill]

Where aren't the dynamic duo down in Mobile, demanding justice for the man that was beaten?

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2012/03/30/Sharpton-Civil-Disobedience

I agree, we have a very sad and steamy summer ahead of us.

[NM_Shooter]

Some Zimmerman background.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

[Pox Eclipse]

I noticed they omitted the incident where Zimmerman assaulted a police officer.  I'm sure it was just an oversight.

Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda cited two incidents -- a 2005 case in which a police officer accused Zimmerman of battery and another incident in which a woman filed a domestic violence injunction against Zimmerman after a scuffle.

In the 2005 case, Zimmerman was charged with battery on a law enforcement officer and obstruction of justice after tussling with an alcoholic beverage control officer. The charges were later reduced to a misdemeanor after Zimmerman agreed to enter a diversion program and take an anger management class, according to testimony in Friday's hearing.

...

In the other case, de la Rionda said a woman filed papers in which she said Zimmerman smacked her in the mouth and "asked her how it felt," as well as grabbed her and threw her on a bed.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/30930042/detail.html

I'm sure he's a very nice boy.  Could happen to anybody.