complete tinfoil - mars

[muldoon]

Someone sent this to me this morning.  It reads like the ravings of a madman, however it does raise an interesting question... is that what it looks like, if so how did that get there?  Thought I would share and see what anyone else here thought about it. 

07 August, 2008
Friends,

    Yesterday the media, including MSN News, ran a story that the Mars Lander Rover had taken soil samples near Mars's North Pole and found perchlorate, a toxin in the soil, "thus casting doubt that Mars could support life", NASA said.      NASA of course is under the control of the National Security Agency, whose head, Lt. General Keith B. Alexander, is a Cabal asset.
    Since 1997 NASA has established a "cut-out" contractor, Malin Space Science Systems, Inc. (MSSS), to control the images coming from satellite cameras orbiting Mars. Even though those images were taken with your tax dollars, MSSS's head, Michael Malin gets to decide which images of Mars's surfaces you are fit to see, and when.
    Malin works cooperatively with the Cabal neo-Nazis at Jet Propulsion Laboratory and NASA to project to the public the false image that Mars is a lifeless desert without adequate air.
    The deliberately- misleading "perchlorate soil" story put out yesterday is another part of the lie the Cabal wants you to believe: that no one can survive on Mars.
    Just what a tremendous lie that is was revealed, perhaps karmicly, by another development yesterday.
    Yesterday I received information from an informant that NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory's Mars Orbital Camera had taken photos of Mars's Southern Polar Region which revealed forests of pine trees growing amidst the Martian polar snowfields! He identified a couple of images (buried among the tens of thousands) which show the pine forest.
    One example of this Martian forest scene is at: http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/r03_r09/full_gif_non_map/R09/R0903461.gif
    A pulled-back focus view is at: http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/r03_r09/full_gif_non_map/R09/R0903462.gif
    In case those sites are blocked, I have attached three downloaded photos of the equivalent views.
    Wait a minute! If Mars is a lifeless desert with inadequate air, what are forests of pine trees doing growing on Mars?
    You mean NASA and JPL and MSSS have been lying to us for years?!
    Yes; and unfortunately the story gets even worse.
    I consulted with the Zeta, and they confirmed that the satellite photos show real trees. However, those trees are Earth pines planted in great numbers near the snowy Southern Polar Region of Mars!
    Pine stock from Earth that has been planted on Mars! Planted by whom?
    Human technicians working for the Cabal.
    And why did the Cabal plant the snowfields of southern Mars with pine trees?
    The Zeta confirmed that this forestation project has been a part of a Terra-forming (making Mars more Earth-like) effort by the Cabal, in order to set up an Alternative- 3*-type home-like refuge for the Cabal, when the Cabal abandon Earth after they have extracted every resource and despoiled it to death.
    The Cabal don't care if their multinational corporations extract every mineral, pollute every stream, cause the ocean to go lifeless, and eventually wrap the Earth permanently in Beijing-like smog. Why? Because the Cabal have their Escape Plan. When Earth becomes no longer desirable to live on, they will fly off in their antigravity craft to pristine Mars, and leave behind the remnant of Humanity to dwindle in a collapsed ecosystem here. 
   The Zeta consultants confirmed that this indeed is precisely the pre-planning the Cabal have been engaged in.
    But there are two flaws in the Cabal's plans.
    The first flaw is that they never expected anyone to discover their plans.
    And their second flaw was revealed when I received consultation from Councillor For the Watchers about the Cabal Escape Plan. He said,
   "Councillor of Earth,
   "Mars will be quarantined of said [Escape] actions, as the Cabal factions will not be able to seek refuge there. It will not be allowed [by Star Nations].
   "I bid you well."
        -  Councillor For the Watchers"

    So, there you have it. No Cabal Escape Plan that will actually work.
    Star Nations will block any Cabal space vessels from carrying Cabal types to escape to Mars.
    The Cabal are stuck here on the Earth they have been busily polluting and ravaging.
    Will the Cabal use this expose as a wake-up call that their Escape Plan is busted, and that they need to buckle down and stop their polluting technology, move to the clean energy and technology given by Star Nations which they have confiscated, and take environmental restoration seriously?
    Since the Cabal are populated with sociopaths and narcissists, don't bet on it.
    But at least they may see it as in their own self-interests to stop undermining the environmental movement.
    It is up to us to wrest away control of technology and corporate business practices, and redirect them in just and non-polluting directions, and work to complete the environmental restoration which Earth needs. 

---
here are the links I got
http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/r03_r09/images/R09/R0903462.html
http://www.msss.com/moc_gallery/r03_r09/images/R09/R0903461.html

[glenn kangiser]

He may not be that far off on the cabal.

[desdawg]

One of the tenants here in my building is a beauty shop. Many times when I stick my head in the door I will see a lady sitting in a chair with all kinds of tinfoil poking off her head at wierd angles. I have long susupected that this is used for off planet communication. The next time I see this I will see if I can get some answers form somewhere out there.

[glenn kangiser]

...and pictures of the communication device, des.  Perhaps we can reverse engineer it.

[desdawg]

I don't want Sobrina to stop paying her rent. I need the money.

[ScottA]

Huh? 

[gandalfthegrey]

He has it all wrong on the tinfoil useage.  It is really used to BLOCK them from reading your mind.

[muldoon]

[peternap]

It's all true. My sons brother-in-law confirmed it...and he;s a cop

[glenn kangiser]

There you go.  Who could be more trustworthy than a cop?   hmm 

[desdawg]

That is a complete cone. These are just little pieces and fragmants, multi directional. There is also the odor of a lot of chemicals in that beauty shop so there may be more going on than just the foil.

[benevolance]

http://www.hermes-press.com/cabal_index.htm

[glenn kangiser]

Interesting Link, Peter. Thanks

[benevolance]

well the cabal was mentioned and I know you are paranoid glenn

[glenn kangiser]

Not paranoid, Peter.  I just have no fear of facing reality, so I don't have to pretend it's a conspiracy theory to belay my fears..

[benevolance]

Glenn I face it and see it...But I have to admit I am afraid of what the future will bring....I have convinced my wife that we need to  go postal get off grid and start growing all our own food making most all of our own clothes... generate all of our own heating fuel... Switch our cars off gasoline...Never drink city water again ( mood altering drugs found in water it is true!!!)

We are signed up for a pottery class the pair of us...And I am going to take a weaving class and so is the wife. I like to usually do it myself but I feel a sense of urgency and so I am not afraid to ask for help learning to be totally self sufficient.

I bought a truck from a guy that went off grid a few months ago he grows all his own food...Makes his own birch beer... all free range meat... hunts fishes... his garden was amazing...Lives in the mountains of North Carolina near Boone... really remote..We spent hours walking his place talking about food and chemicals ...I even brought my wife back to meet the guy so she could see how we could live off grid too....It convinced her...Well I think she needed to eat from his garden before she was totally convinced..

I see where we need to go Glenn but the future is very uncertain and that to me is scary. I do not relish the fact that we are going to see our fellow countrymen suffering when the sh#t hits the fan...I am going to be ready... but I know that pretty much nobody else will be...And it scares the crap out of me.

[glenn kangiser]

There you go Peter.  Reality may suck but you can take control and help yourself.

Being off grid during the fire not only kept me in power while the grid shut down for a week or more destroying all of the evacuated peoples refrigerated  or frozen food, It saved us over a thousand dollars in food when our freezers and refrigerators remained running, plus it gave me the opportunity to feed 4 of the thousands of fire fighters a decent breakfast.

The county put out dumpsters for the rotted meat etc.  Tons and tons and tons for the on grid people.  I estimated a million dollars worth but could have been twice that.

About 20 more of those and the solar power system will be paid for.

[benevolance]

Well there is always the added benefit of local authorities not having the authority to enter your land because you did not waive rights when they installed electricity on the property... That has to be something of unmeasurable value Glenn

Btw remind me in the spring to pester at you more about that...When the snow melts and we go back up to start cutting the site for our greenhouse...We will need to get some signs for the locals and the authorities...We are going off grid...considering we have a south facing slope for solar and we have  good strong winds that average 6 m/s....So a solar and wind combination system will have to be designed and installed by yours truly. I have read a bunch and if I can get 160 feet into the air the average wind speed for my area is closer to 8 m/s... but getting a tower that high up might be a problem

I was doing a lot of research on sizing a wind system and it seems an average household uses 6000 KWH a year, which breaks down to 500 KWH a month...Considering we are going to have a greenhouse a barn for the critters and the house...We will likely get a 10,000 KWH windmill... and I have been looking at a site that sells used TV tower...So I should be able to get the thing 100 feet into the air with little problems.

wiring the damned thing up will confound me... but other than that I am okay with it...

BTW what are you saving a year not having to pay an electric bill...And land without grid power is of less value so less property taxes... Being of fgrid pays for itself very quickly

[MountainDon]

Being off grid pays for itself very quickly

Depends. (I know I'm always finding something to be contrary about     )

For example, IF the power grid was much closer to our mountain property I would very likely not be installing solar PV as my sole power source. I have a friend living in the area, but in a more populated section. It cost him about $2500 to be connected. His monthly bill runs about $20.

Our grid connection on the other hand would cost $55K+. I'll be spending $6 to $8K on PV panels, cabling, controller, inverter, (all highly rated high end equipment) sufficient quantity of batteries to see us through several consecutive cloudy days, etc. I have still saved oodles of money compared to the grid connection fee, but my friend has still paid much less.

True, with solar PV as my source I'll likely have power when the grid goes down as it does on occasion. That is an important detail. But I'll also have battery maintenance duties, probably replacements needed at some point. I'll still need the generator as well.

IMO, it's still hard to beat the cost of grid power, when it's available at more or less normal connection fees.

Being totally electrically independent is, as MasterCard is wont to say, Priceless. However, I don't believe you can flatly state that being off grid pays for itself very quickly. 


OTOH, being grid connected and having a solar PV array and being able to sell excess generation back to the power company at a price higher than what you pay them, as we can here in suburban New Mexico, has a certain attraction. However it's still not a very good return on investment. It would feel good though. During a time of some emergency it would be Priceless. Sometimes you have to pick and choose, find the best places to spend ones limited funds and make compromises.

OMMV

PS I still think that grid tied PV solar with batteries is still the best of both worlds;  just not practical in my mountains.

[benevolance]

Don I looked into the whole selling power to the utility company thing... They do an exchange where if they get power from you...You can get power back from them at a discount price...So there is no way to profit from it or break even really as I understand it....this is a lousy policy IMHO as it does not encourage people at all to go green and seek out ways to generate electricity by alternative means.,,,Maine has one of the highest prices for electricity in the Country...So getting off grid will save a lot of money. Cold winters means more time indoors for 5 months a year which can use up a lot of juice. We will not have electric heat...but just lighting the home the barn and some in the greenhouse would be expensive on grid...I figured we would use the electricity of 3 average houses...So that is a lot of money to save each month.

Plus the fact that about 15 poles would need to go in for me to have grid power at $1500 each...I am not getting grid power

[benevolance]

Here is some mumbo jumbo jargon I researched a while back on Maine's "net Metering" program

metering, and their policy choices have varied considerably.
Differences among states are especially significant on such
issues as the following:
Allowable technologies: Solar and wind are clear favorites, but
small hydropower, wood, and other renewables also have a
strong presence. At least five states (Maine, New Mexico,
Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, and Vermont) also explicitly allow
fuel cells in their net metering programs.
Maximum kilowatts allowed: Limits generally are placed on
the size of home generators and on the statewide production of
net-metered power. Utilities do not want to face too much
competition too soon.
"Net excess generation": i.e., what to do when, at the end of a
billing period, the home generator has produced more power
than it has consumed off the grid.
In Maine, net metering has been authorized since 1987,
not by legislation but through regulation by the state Public
Utilities Commission. Maine allows net metering for
individual generators with a capacity up to 100 kilowatts
(generally the upper limit among the states) and offers it to
all customer classes—not only to residential facilities, as is
the case in many states—but also to commercial and
industrial facilities.
Maine also requires utilities to pay no more than the
"avoided cost" rate (roughly equivalent to wholesale) for
any excess power produced by net-metered customers.
Starting March 1, 2000, when retail competition begins in
Maine, net metering customers will be able to carry over
their net excess generation from month to month. At the
end of the year, any unused credits for excess generation
will accrue to the utility.

my understanding of this is that if you do not use your credit up by the end of the year you lose them to the power company and the cycle starts all over again...So at no time can you ever get paid for your energy from the utility.

a pretty lousy way to do it if you are looking for people to truly harness all of the energy on their land....This encourages people to generate only enough to cover their own needs

[MountainDon]

Well, I do believe New Mexico is in the forefront with regards to an intelligent plan for net metering.

In its simplest form if you generate more than you use you never see a payment from the power company. Here, in that case the credits keep piling up year after year. They will never pay you a fair amount. But if you use up the credits with extra use it's subtracted from the bill.

However, the second tier option makes special allowance for the power company to pay the producer monthly for any excess generation. The catch, a $100 application fee. One fee, one time. Per location. So if you don't move, there's no extra fees. If you have excess generation they pay you. Presently they pay the 0.13 and as stated we average up to 0.10 on our purchased power.

So here it's a better deal than in most places in the USA.

However, the fly in the ointment is the initial investment in the solar PV panels and related equipment. As I stated I see that as being the "best of both worlds". But that all hinges on an economical grid connection fee.

Plus the fact that about 15 poles would need to go in for me to have grid power at $1500 each...I am not getting grid power

Well, that was a big part of the analysis I drew; one of the IF's to be considered. I stand by my statement "I don't believe you can flatly state that being off grid pays for itself very quickly." 




How much power will be used in an individual food production greenhouse? Is that really economically justified/feasible? An outdoor garden makes complete sense to me, I'm just not sure when it comes to small scale greenhouses.   



Now this nest statement will have many in total disagreement with me, but it's my opinion that one of the advances made in the past 100 years has been specialization. I don't need to grow all my own food or face starvation. I don't need to hunt down my meat or do without. I don't have to make all my own clothing or go naked or be toasted by the sun, frozen by the snows. I don't need to repair my own vehicle, I can pay someone. I don't need to invent the Internet, Al Gore did that for me. I/we do what we're good at and other people pay us. The process that has evolved leaves me free time and money to buy land, build a cabin, hunt when and if I want, travel and do cool recreational things. If I had to do it all myself I'd likely have died from overwork or because I botched up my own appendectomy.

My point here is that even though I could do the growing and hunting, K could do the clothes, I can repair mechanical and electrical devices, build things; but I don't need to do it all myself. Not at the present time.

[benevolance]

Don

Yes using the outdoors is always preferred to grow food...But the greenhouse allows you to use transplants...You can have thousands of them ready for spring planting meaning you beat the frost in colder climates and still get to grow whatever you want. When you put them in the ground they can be 6 inches high or a foot high..And that is the spring....So it allows people in the cooler climates to extend what they can grow and the quality of their produce.

And you can grow food in the fall in the greenhouse as well.

As for doing one thing...I am about done with it...It will take 2-3 years before we will have a place built and cleared enough to move to Maine... We are going to sell the house in Lake City SC in the Spring likely and in a couple of years the house in North Carolina will go for sale.

we get better or more efficient doing one thing extremely well... But I want to live by my own terms... by my own means. I do not want to rely on others for anything...well if I need a broken bone mended or something I might go to the doctor...otherwise I would rather live on what I can grow and make myself. It is a lot cheaper to grow your own food and generate your own power imho... Millions of Americans are making good wages and living check to check...I know part of that is because they have credit cards and they eat in restaurants and stuff like that...The other part is that if you need to get a plumber to come fix a toilet it costs hundreds of dollars for an hours work...You work half a week to pay him for an hour long repair....same thing if you need a touch up of freon on the HVAC or a recepticle installed by an electrician. People cannot afford to not learn to do for themselves!

When you have a parcel of land paid for...And you are farming on it you pay almost no property tax...So if your food is covered there is no mortgage or car payment to worry about and you generate your own electricity...Water sewage and garbage are taken care of...How much money do you really need to live? Because there is no mortgage there is no requirement that says you have to carry insurance....

They tax you to death on anything automobile related...Some states give farmers a break on license plates...and some discounted fuel for farm vehicles. but honestly we do not need to be managers at the  bank or supervisor down at the factory to pay our bills and even save money. It might be time consuming to do many things yourself. Having almost no overhead and no expenses means that whatever you do make is yours.

Not having to commute to work back and forth every day also frees up a lot of time in our lives...So there is plenty of time to learn to do things for ourselves.

it is my opinion that government does not want people living off the land growing their own food... because if they buy everything they have to pay taxes on it which they collect and the more we spend as people the more we need to make... more income means more taxes collected... it is a viscious cycle designed for them to win and us to lose...

I just decided it was better not to play that particular game.... even if it means I have to do everything myself..

Even if it takes the rest of my life to get this thing  working... what else do I have to do? I have a secret for you Don...None of us are making it off this rock alive! So we all might as well find something we find worthwhile and rewarding and get busy spending the rest of our lives doing it.

The pursuit of money and a career and success is needless thing....There is little lasting happiness or self fufillment in that. I would rather be at ease every day for the rest of my life and live by what many see as unconventional means...

So what if someone else has a bigger bank account or fancier lifestyle..I could care less.

And so I stumble along sometimes like a fool learning how to do things better left to others...It took me ten times longer to install my first HVAC system than it would someone that knew what they were doing...But it works.

A really good friend of mine died 3 years ago he was rich a self made millionaire...He had a auto repair business and he was only 49! He worked himself to death...Heart attack all the eating at fast food places because he was working to 11 pm every night instead of eating healthy food at his house. So for all the money he had... he never got to spend his retirement with his grandchildren.. he never got to travel or write...1/3rd of his life was taken away...and so many things never got to be realized.

We bought an extra house and tackled the extra work as an end to a mean..Getting land.. getting out of the rat race...We had no illusions of working regular jobs for the rest of our lives to take a measly pension and if we are lucky get 10 years at the end where we have enough mobility to do something fun.... My wife and I saw no point in that!

When the houses are sold and we are on our land in the woods... We can always take part time work if need be to pay the bills if the farm struggles.. but with little to no overhead... We will not have to create a revenue like most people do... Most married working couples in America that own their own home with a mortgage and own 2 cars need to bring in 75,000-100,000 dollars before taxes...and even then they are living paycheck to paycheck...And they are 60 before they own their own home.

Excuse me if I find this ridiculous...

[benevolance]

did not mean to rant like crazy... guess I just feel a passion for this.

[MountainDon]

I have a secret for you Don...None of us are making it off this rock alive! So we all might as well find something we find worthwhile and rewarding and get busy spending the rest of our lives doing it.

Right! Here's the difference between us. I like Independence, value it highly. I also love my Freedom. You do too.

Our methods are different. I don't mind paying someone to do those things I either don't know how to do correctly/safely as well as those I'd rather not do right now.

We need a new floor in the living room (water damage in another topic). We've decided to go with a porcelain tile. I've already tiled 80% of the rest of the house over the years. I simply don't want to spend the hours down on my knees to do another 400 square feet. So I'm going to pay someone.

But I am going to spend time tiling some 430 square feet in the cabin. Go figure that one out.   


I also value the free time I receive, by paying others to tile that living room, to go play on the rocks in UT once in a while. If I tried to do it all there'd be less time for fun.


Where we also agree is in not wanting a mortgage. We haven't had one, on our residence in years. And the last one on a rental unit was paid off this summer. That income allows us to cut our work back to 4 days a week. 

Re: the most married couples needing two jobs, etc.... that's because they're basically overspending and that's because they're not thinking realistically. But that's another rant and I'm tired of it. If that's what others want to do, so be it. Just don't tell me the government job is to bail them out. Another rant there too.   

If you want to do it all yourself, more power to you. I'm more of a barter, trade, buy, sell, pay sort. After all I am a serious Capitalist at heart.