A-Frames

[wheelersst]

I'm doing research on building A-frames, and the information is much more scarce than I had expected. Where is the best place to get plans? and how do I determine how much space I can afford? What are the best ways to cut costs?

thanks!

[MountainDon]

A frames are not the darling they were a few decades back. I find it's a love 'em or hate 'em relationship.

Personally I find them too much like a long dark tunnel, windows only on the ends. Lots of wasted or hard to use floor space. But that's just my opinion.

We have one build here that I can think of... 
20x32 A frame cabin Central KY

[Squirl]

A Frames are mostly built for speed and look.  They are not the lowest cost per usable square foot.

A more detailed description of what your goals are would help give a more detailed answer.  Cabin/house, size, location, etc.

[Squirl]

btw

[John Raabe]

A-frames were popular in the 60's and 70's - and there are lots of links to more info - goo.gl/gZwDQ

Like geodesic domes (popular at the same time) the design works better in abstract than it does in reality. And both concepts share the same problem, they ignore the fact that the way we live in physical space is made easier and more efficient by walls that are vertical.

My suggestion - build a platform that includes the area you want to live in. Then build walls at the edges of the platform that are, say, 8' tall. Now, you can build the A-frame on top of those walls and gain back all that narrow sloped space you would have had to waste.

• Interesting note: The google search link above has, about 1/2 way down, a link to the Nash cabin (on this web site) and the story of his cabin that started out with an A-frame design.

[wheelersst]

Hey thanks everyone!

I guess my general idea is this... First off, Im poor! ha! My husband and I own a new-ish small business and therefore cant qualify for much loan. I have spent a lot of time poring over listings and I can afford a small house, but no land. The land size is more important to me than the house size, as we want to garden and have animals, plus I figured we can always add on or build a new structure down the road once we are more established, and this little place can become an in-law type home for family.

As I said, I dont need a ton of space. A loft would be nice. I'd prefer to not live completely off the grid, hot water being a complete MUST, though I would be willing to entertain alternative sources of getting it. I could definitely deal with a wood stove and propane stove.

Does anyone have cost estimates? Say somewhere around 400 sq ft? Also, suggestions as far as plans go? My initial idea was an a-frame, because they are cute and I enjoy the vintage feel of them, but would be totally willing to entertain other options.

Thanks!

[Squirl]

I learned the hard way in this process, so I will pass on what I know. Right now land loans are between difficult and impossible in this environment.  Maybe you can find a place with owner financing.

I talked to a couple of people who recently qualified for construction loans, but they had stellar credit, enough net worth more than the loan amount, and a modular built house with contractor.

Since this is a house and not a cabin, year round energy requirements are a factor.

Location will effect it a lot.  Mild climate, vs. cold climate.  Energy codes vs. not.  This is an very important factor with A frames.  They have very little cavity space for insulation, so to comply with cold northern climates they require a lot of rigid exterior foam.  This can be a problem with A frames because heat rises and it is all roof.  This pushes up the cost.

A common misconception when people first get into this is wood heat is cheap or free.  Especially with an A-frame, wood is the usually the higher upfront cost heating systems. A tall triple wall stainless steel chimney can be expensive. In addition, if you factor in what you could sell that cord of wood for ($150 around me) it is not free.  In Eagles thread is shows some of the difficulty with placing a wood stove in an A frame.  The less expensive box stoves require the largest clearance.

My general estimates are an A frame would cost 30% or more in materials per usable square foot than a conventional stick frame house.

A large part of the cost of a house is the land, the well, the septic and the utilities.  Almost all will cost the same regardless of the size of the house.

There was a reason they were popular in the 60's.  They were mostly built as cabins. Many were sold in kits and could be erected in a long weekend.  So if you worked full time and wanted a weekend getaway, you could do it without taking much time off of work.

One reason you won't find many plans for them is they are so simple with little possibilities for derivation.  You just need a simple framing book on how to build a gable roof with ridgeboard.  It is the same exact principle. From memory I remember seeing a bunch of free ones put out by the forest service usually on some county extension service plans sites.  Also I remember finding them in old issues of popular mechanics and a few old building books at the local library.  You could always try there too.

[boltpost]

Try a Google Books Search for Popular Science August 1961, begins on  page 127   "Why the Big Boom in A-frames" This shows floor plans, and very cool examples.  Or these free plans
http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/aben-plans/6003.pdf

[UK4X4]

This is one I looked at early on in my "project"

http://free.woodworking-plans.org/a-frame-house-design-with-2-bedrooms-5964.html

[itpdk9]

I think these are pretty cool. What do you think the cost diff is between this and a comparable 11/2 story w a loft would be. Obviously the loft is going to be bigger. Why are people abandoning the a frame in your opinions ? Thanks for the input 

[MountainDon]

people abandoning the a frame in your opinions

You asked... from my perspective...

Usable floor space per footprint is a big strike against them, IMO. We have a 16 x 30 foot conventional one floor cabin. 480 sq feet, or more like 432 when measured inside.   Use the same footprint and the usable floor space drops to maybe something like 12 feet wide (348 sq ft more or less) at the point where there is 5 feet vertical (not the 8 feet we have everywhere) from floor up to slanted roof-wall. That's using 20 foot long members for the roof-wall... approximately.

I don't need that 'wasted' space for storage either. Too low and cramped for my likes. But again maybe that is just me.

I don't particularly care for an upper floor or loft, so that puts the A frame at an additional disadvantage in the eyes of myself as well as my wife. Upper floors are always warmer whether you like it or not, or at least that is how it seems to me.

As was mentioned previously; insulation is another. We have approx R45 in our ceiling. That was easy to achieve with blown in cellulose at fairly low cost.

Sloped walls restrict the way the interior can be laid out.

I'm not even convinced they are easy to build, which is one of the claims I see being made by some advocates of their design.

The only good thing I can say about a A frame is they sure shed snow well. 

[Gary O]

A-men to the Donurisms

In the '50 and '60s they were kinda romantic (tucked somehere in the mind, with a Hemingway chapter)...but the romance fades in the practical world

I s'pose the 'easy' part of building w/be the lack of angles...but the larger structures take some doing..........

[itpdk9]

Thanks points taken. I would imagine it would get really hot in the a frame loft....

[rocking23nf]

well im going chime in and support the A-frame, i love my cabin, its a complete reno of an A frame that was built in the 60s.

The only thing that sucked was incorporating a kitchen into the design.

Heres a link to my reno so far, its nearing completion, alot of outide work left including 2 decks and a metal roof(if money permits the roof)

[rocking23nf]

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=8958.msg138271#msg138271

[JRR]

"Everything else being equal" ..... can there be a stonger-shaped frame construction for resisting wind and quake?

[JRR]

... another small point about "unusable" floor space:  How many attics have been built with engineered trusses that have NO usuable storage or living space?  But these are out-of-sight, out-of-mind... so little is thought of them.

I am no fan of A-frames.  But with proper planning ......