Over designed septic systems - why simpler is better

[John Raabe]

Many of the folks on this forum will remember the name of Lloyd Kahn author and publisher of the Shelter book, Home Work, hand built houses and many other titles.

He has a great book on designing and building a safe and inexpensive septic system which I have reviewed before...

Now comes a new article in next month's Mother Earth News on the topic:

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Homesteading-and-Self-Reliance/2008-02-01/Truth-About-Septic-Systems.aspx

                                     The Truth About Septic Systems
                                      By Lloyd Kahn

         "Vested interests are making on-site wastewater disposal more costly than it needs to be."

[glenn kangiser]

I have to agree with that.

[Daddymem]

I agree with the premise that many regulations for septic systems are out of control and side with Kahn.  But I wish he wasn't on my side.  Too many wrong statements in that article to even read bother, I can only imagine the book is full of errors too.

[glenn kangiser]

I think done right but within reason is a good plan.  We are 1/2 mile from the nearest neighbor down the mountain who may need our water when we flush. 

Some of the new systems are totally unreasonable for where they are going.  A million deer, coyotes, cows, and wild animals go all over the ground between my place and the neighbors-- besides my morning leak over the edge of the mountain.  Trees thrive on it.

For new ones who don't know, Daddymem is a pro in septic systems and other engineer type things --here he's off duty, but kindly shares his knowledge with us.  Thanks, Daddymem.

He also built a very fine house while with us -- under Progress Finally in Owner Builder Projects I believe.

[John Raabe]

Interesting comment Daddymem.

Good to have your input and perspective. Kahn is a very interesting, creative and productive alternative to conventional building and engineering practices. Always a colorful read as well...

But, the well-researched deep scholarship may have to be done by others.

[Daddymem]

The old animal argument is a sure sign that you need to start in the opposite direction.  Call me when a family of 3 deer move onto your land and " pee, poo, wash hands, brush teeth, wash laundry, empty mop buckets, shower, bathe, rinse dishes before loading the dishwasher, empty the now spoiled glass of milk they forgot last night, etc. all to be dumped in the same few thousand square feet every single day.  Then we can compare septic systems to what nature does. 

After reading Kahn's article and knowing the glaring errors in it, I have say I'd have serious doubts about anything he writes if I weren't familiar with the topic myself, but that's just mho.   

[glenn kangiser]

Well now that you mentioned it, there are around 15 or so deer living here -- squatting actually -- and not once have they even offered to wash the dishes or clothes.

For those who want to learn more on this and why Daddymem has legitimate concerns also, here is an old topic with good information on engineered and other systems. 

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=944.0  This is my neighbors engineered system - our member  Harry51.

Daddymem furnished some great links for education on the topic and it looks like he is sending me back  for remedial training.  This is for Mass but is similar with the same problems everywhere in general. 

http://www.learntitle5.org/Toc.htm

Daddymem practices what he preaches and put in a filter system on his new home.  Rules - http://mass.gov/dep/water/rsfguide.pdf


All of this and more is covered in our topic on engineered systems.  Check it out if you are doing a septic system and want to know more.

I hadn't read Kahn's article before - have now - but was just going from what I see around here.  Totally dry mountain - groundwater is first hit at 300 feet and yet a couple of neighbors were required to put in engineered systems.  In our area, it is normally 1/4 to 1/2 mile down hill to any other house with meadows, trees etc. 

Systems are not allowed in marginal areas, but are usually remedied by a pre-emptive strike -- 20 to 30000 dollar system is prescribed quite often.

Kahn came down pretty hard on engineers.  Once they are involved I can see them having to design an expensive system to protect their reputation, but it seems in some cases Counties etc. involve them too easily.   A lot of it is to shift the blame or liability to the engineers and remove it from the licensing agency.

In high density areas I see this being more of a problem  ie: same few thousand square feet.  We have over 871000 to pollute.