Tell me that this guy is off his rocker PLEASE!!

[cedarglen]

We are building Johns 2 story universal on a poured concrete crawlspace foundation. I just got my first bid in for putting in our footings and stem wall. We are already excavated. Bid is for

1. Supply and Install forms
2. Supply and install rebar, concrete (2 truck loads plus a rent a cement pump), and bolts
3. Strip the forms off

The bid was $12,400.

We are in high priced CA, but please tell me that is high.

[glenn-k]

Considering that you are in a bit higher priced area of CA than I am, and being a contractor and paying outrageous insurance to contract  (the residential market quadrupled my insurance last year - Katrina etc?), I would guess that if he is high it isn't a whole bunch - but I could be wrong.  You might shop it some more.

[MikeT]

For reference, below is my basement foundation pour setup on the Victoria's Cottage.  I did the forms myself (borrowed) and tied the rebar myself, and stripped it myself (when I say myself, I mean my father, mean myself and my family).  I only paid for the concrete ($100/yd), the pumper (paid cash to save, 2x), and for help on both the footing and stemwall pours ($2000), and of course the rebar.  I may be off a bit, but I think I did it for less than $6000.

For your project, why not do your footing and forms as a single pour using those Rapi-form clips?   You could then buy the footing lumber (2x8's or 2x10's) and 3/4" CDX and some 2x4s for bracing.  All your wood could likely be reused.  

Glenn and others my shudder, but that is what I did for my garage project that I did before I tackled the beach project below:

[glenn-k]

Actually, Mike, that is about the difference of having a contractor do it or doing it yourself.  Note that I am all for an owner builder doing it themselves if possible.

A rough rule of thumb would be the value of the job many times runs twice the cost of the materials.  This can vary widely and many times forms would be included in the cost of the job even if there is the possibility of using them over again.  

I still think that is a really impressive foundation, Mike.

[desdawg]

Sounds like a lot to me for a crawlspace. I am pretty sure I could find a better way to part with my money. But I am not familiar with the California economy so I could be way off base.

[cedarglen]

I was pretty scared at when I heard $12,400. I have now gotten two more bids around $5500. Materials in this community (mountain community) will run about $2300 so those bids are sounding better.

[glenn-k]

I hadn't seen the Rap-i-form clips before, Mike-- I have a job to use them on.  Thanks.

[glenn-k]

That sounds a whole bunch better, Cedarglen.  Since you have more than one in range that makes it easier to assume that one is not underbidding.

[MikeT]

But bear in mind when I am stating what I believe I paid, that includes labor for two pours plus some of their time (1/2 day for some guys) to shore up my footings so the Oregon coast would not have a river of concrete running into it....I think I wrote a check to my mentor/overseer/helper for about $2500 for the time that he and his guys helped me out--money well spent, by the way.

Thanks for the compliment on the foundation.  I will enjoy it more when I get this first round of framing on and I am working on some flat surfaces--that may be dry for a reasonable period too!

For Cedarglenn: I know that any contractor you deal with will have the materials costs which may be somewhat less than you can get (but not that much), but then they will have their time.  Assume they want the job and they are paying themselves a living wage (all things considered).   I am just guessing here, but I bet you have $1500 worth of concrete for footings and stemwalls, plus another couple hundred dollars a few times for a pumper.  The rebar (assuming #4 bar costs another few hundred or more).  Then there are the forms.   You can always rent those.

The rest is time and expertise.  What is that worth to you?

Based on my experience with my forms, I would say that the experts earn their money.  When the concrete was being poured on my project, a water meter reader came over to the job site and commented to my father as he was watching the guys bust butt to keep ahead of the pumper: "that is one tough way way to make a living."

[Amanda_931]

The only horrible thing I can think of to mention is if the low bidders think, naaah, "we don't need a pumper" and they're wrong, it could get some combination of ugly, and delayed, and maybe costing more.