food per person without external inputs

[paul wheaton]

This has been my most important video to put out for the last five months.  But it required a LOT of editing.  I whittled it down from 60 minutes to about 12.  I went through several hardware failures and software failures and ended up starting over twice.  And now the end still seems weird, but this information is too important for me to spend another week picking at nits.

Helen Atthowe, Norris Thomlinson and Tulsey Latoski convey their very experienced opinion on how many acres does it take to feed one person when there are no external inputs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8zNfiNA-3A

[mgramann]

Very interesting!

[Squirl]

Very interesting. 

I liked the couple more.  They were more technical in their approach.  They also didn't limit themselves to a vegan diet.  They used their land more efficiently by adding bees and chickens.  They could feed their scraps and insects to the chickens, and the plants produce nectar and need to be pollinated anyway.  Both seemed more complimentary in squeezing every ounce of caloric value out of a space.

I wonder how much the couple sacrificed in efficiency for biodiversity.  I heard him mention the paleo diet, but I couldn't tell if they were taking that approach.  It is a very inefficient use of land for production of food because it leaves out high caloric dense foods for production such as grains and legumes.  Say if you grow half an acre of wheat, you could get 400-600 lbs a year without outside inputs such as fertilizer.  At 1400 calories per pound that could easily supply a large part of the diet for two people for a year.  That other 5000 square feet (1/8th acre) that they had could make up the extra 750 calories of nutrients and minerals a person needs.  Most grains are only grown for 4-5 months also.  Cornell has had great success in convince farmers to plant fields with a winter forage crop and have been getting great results of keeping sheep on them during the winter for winter forage and additional calories.  Granted it would not be the most diverse diet and we are all kind of spoiled by the diversity we have access to.  The woman in the beginning had touched on this and the efficiency of scale when she said 6-7 acres could support 10 people, where she could only support 1 on a acre herself.

It is a very interesting subject that I am fascinated by.  I look at old reports of how much an acre could sustain before fossil fuels and how much it can support now.  I wonder how much is from increased knowledge and efficiency in production from the information age or how much gain was simply from fossil fuels such as in commercial fertilizers, powered farm equipment, and trucks to ship everything around.

[OlJarhead]

Great post.

I've read that it takes one acre of garden to feed a family but honestly, I think that would be tough to do!  My thought is more along what the couple was suggesting in that you've got to have a portion of your diet provided by meat and dairy (and eggs etc) and the rest can be made up of veggies etc.

With the addition of a root cellar and a large root vegetable garden as well as an orchard and berry patches and with the use of canning as well as raising animals then a family of 5-7 could probably do very well on 15-20 acres.  You'd need the standard veggies, goats, chickens, maybe a milk cow and bull, a dozen fruit trees and a few berry patches as well as root cellar, dry cellar and canning equipment as well as dehydrator and perhaps smoker.

Then I don't see why you couldn't do this.

[mgramann]

The Self-sufficient Life and How to Live It is a great book about this topic-for those who are interested.  It has layouts for a a 1 acre farm, 5 acre farm, and even an Urban Multi Family garden.  With each layout, as the size of the farm grows, the less need for external input exists.  Another factor discussed in the book, relates to the efficiency of a garden.  What grows best in a particular area, and taking advantage of more than one growing season are probably the biggest factors.

[rick91351]

One thing that also needs addressed in this thread is location, location, location.  As far as sustainability a half acre garden in Louisiana is going to return much more in one year than an acre in Wyoming.  My take of Wyoming is like Samuel Clemens' take on San Francisco.  The coldest winter I even spent was the summer I spent in San Francisco.  Only mine was Cheyenne.

Sassy and Glenn in Calif had broccoli from their garden just the other day.  Here on the Snake River Plan its all done mid September to mid October.     

Also here on the Snake River Plan of Idaho the growing season unaided with row crop covers, hoop houses, and such is three month longer than at 5000 at the ranch for frost tender plants.  This is to the point where you might plant tomatoes, peppers and such there and you might crop and you might not.  Down here in the valley we have huge harvests of such.  Yet up at the ranch again at 5000 ft.  My forefathers in the1920's on the same ground, cash cropped, root crops into Boise Basin Mining District as well as over into Rocky Bar, Pine and Featherville.

Certain areas of Montana especially around Missoula seem to be able to escape some of those horrible winters and late springs, no summers, drifting into fall.  My point is to be realistic, the area and the specific climate needs to be addressed.

[Bob S.]

I have read that in the 1800's in the midwestern states a man needed a 40 acre farm to feed himself and his family and have a little something to sell as a cash crop. Part of the problem was puting up hay for the draft animals. I think 80 or 90 % of the population lived this way.

[Windpower]

Location is of course very important

I think for those of us that are in 4 season areas one of these would be a huge help

The complete system includes a 1000 gallon water tank to moderate temperatures and even raise some fish. Tilapia are well suited to this
(although I prefer a nice Copper River salmon 

They are in the 8 - 10 thousand range for the kit





http://geodesic-greenhouse-kits.com/community/

[OlJarhead]

Better still, and much much cheaper, is a subterranean green house....I'll have to find the links for it but suffice to say it's way cool!

[NM_Shooter]

Ditto what Rick said....

I'm living on pure sand here in ABQ.  Soil is tough to come by, and water harder.  I brought in a bunch of wood chips to amend the soil and all it did was attract termites