Reloading?

[OlJarhead]

Slugging the bore is driving a soft lead oversize slug through to measure. It's a must if you plan to start shooting cast, but a good idea even for JB's.

And yes, I understand your fascination with it. I like all guns,love most but am absolutely devoted to falling blocks and lever actions. Muzzle Loaders fall into another but related affair.

Oh we're of a feather then for certain

How I'd love a Kentucky!

[firefox]

oljarhead: I believe that the M14 was supposed to be a very accurate rifle. I was wondering
if you knew whether the Corps ever used it as a sniper rifle, and if so do you know what the did to it, scopes etc.?
Thanks,
Bruce

[OlJarhead]

oljarhead: I believe that the M14 was supposed to be a very accurate rifle. I was wondering
if you knew whether the Corps ever used it as a sniper rifle, and if so do you know what the did to it, scopes etc.?
Thanks,
Bruce

Oh yes the Marine Corps and the M14 go hand in hand...fit like a glove!  Did you know the USMC still uses them?  In Iraq they put at least one of the 'battle rifles' back into a platoon (maybe even squad level) because the M16 simply lacks the power to shoot through walls or kill at 800-1000 yards but not the M14!

As for Snipers, the M14 was used as the A Gunners rifle.  You see sniper teams have two weapon systems, the primary weapon (sniper rifle -- the only semi auto used for this that I know of was the M1 Garand) and the secondary weapon (A Gunners rifle).  The A Gunners rifle has to be capable to shooting out to the same range as the primary weapon with reasonably good accuracy and a properly fitted M14 can do it but not quite like the bolt action weapons.

I know Springfield makes a 'White Feather' version of the M1A but I think that's just something they've done in honor of Hathcock.  After all, he and his A Gunner used an M14 in conjunction with their Model 70 30-06 'Target Rifle' primary weapon but the M14 was never the primary.

As for mine, it's not overly accurate as it sits.  I find that I've been able to hold reasonable shot groups at 100 yards when zeroing -- reasonable meaning that I don't shoot it nearly enough, am getting old and blind so have a hard time getting a good sight alignment much less sight picture, and with all that still can hold 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards with decent factory or home reloaded ammo.

I have the scout squad version which also makes a difference as the barrel is shorter and less likely to produce the results of a $3000 match or White Feather version which I have no doubt will drive tacks at 100 yards and is more then capable of hitting the X repeatedly at 1000 yards with a good operator.

Anyway, I'm no sniper (just to be sure no one gets the wrong impression) but I love to shoot and, well, Chesty Puller was a fighting Marine but Gunny Hathcock sits right there beside him

[firefox]

Thanks oljarhead. I qualified expert on the M14 in the Corps at PI, but I am not a sniper or even close to that. I also used M1 garands in ITR at Lejeune. I was out before the M16 was issued. I also received excelent training on the 3.5 rocket launcher when I joined the 22nd Marines.
Bruce

[peternap]

3.5 rocket launcher 
Bruce

Hmmmmmmmm

[firefox]

The original was called a bazooka and was 2.9" The 3.5" is just an upgrade.
It just sounds sexy when you say rocket launcher. The thrill wears off fast when you start
out as a ammo humper. It adds up to a lot of weight which my old mind has completely blanked out. gee, I wonder why?
I was lucky, there was this comitted corporal who could knock out a tank at 500 yards
who took me under his wing and tried to bring me up to speed. He was one of these guys
that didn't wnt any rank and just loved his job. If he was promoted, he would just go into
town, get tanked, and then go cuss out the platoon leader, which got him busted back down again.
Bruce

[rick91351]

I don't know Bruce, bazooka sounds a lot more masculine.  Rocket launcher sounds like use once and it is all done.  Bazooka on the other hand!!!  Okay I know.         

[firefox]

After humping a full load of rounds on a 50 mile forced march I
don't think you are too worried about people thinking you aren't masculine.
Bruce

[rick91351]

I'm keeping my mouth shut before Ellen takes my computer away from me again! 

[firefox]

It's ok Rick, I understand, you just need to be a little more assertive.
Bruce
PS the rounds are a little less than 9 pounds each.

[rick91351]

Really what I need to do is say thanks for serving.  You and all you veterans that are on this list.  THANKS!!!

[firefox]

Thank you, I really appreciate that!

Oh, and by assertive I mean you have to say:
Yes Ma'am,
No Ma'am,
Right away Ma'am,
In an assertive voice

Happy New Year
Bruce & Robbie

[Whitlock]

oljarhead: I believe that the M14 was supposed to be a very accurate rifle. I was wondering
if you knew whether the Corps ever used it as a sniper rifle, and if so do you know what the did to it, scopes etc.?
Thanks,
Bruce

My Gramps was a gun nut and he passed a little on to me so I will try to shed some lite on this for you Firefox but I'm no expert.

I believe the M1 Garands was frist adopted as a sniper rifle they used a match grade weapon and called it the M1C and later the M1D it had a flash hider like that on the M2 and a M84 telescopic sight and  a leather cheek pad on the butt to make your eye line up with the scope that was mounted of to the left side of the rifle.
The M14 was about the same.
It was called the XM21 and it also had the option of useing the Starlight night vison scope and nosie suppressors.
Later on with the XM21 they started useing the 3x9 redfield scope with the Accu-range reticle.
The XM21 was a Army sniper rifle but surely the USMC used some.
Mostly the USMC used my favorite the M40.
It is a Remington 700 bolt action with a medium weight barrel and wooden stock and it also used the Accu- range scopes.
Later on they changed things up a bit by putting on a fiberglass stock and adding a Unerti scope to the M40A1.
I think this weapons system is still in use by the USMC but has had a lot of changes done to it I think it is the M40A5.
The USMC also used the Wincherter M70 but I don't know much about it.


Hope this helps,W

[firefox]

Thanks Whitlock! That was a lot more than I ever expected and I really appreciate it.
My Father was also a Marine, but he never talked about it. Actually he never really talked about anything with me, but that wasn't all his fault. I was always running around like crazy
discovering things...and then trying to figure out how to avoid being found out ..........

Bruce aka firefox

[OlJarhead]

Firefox:  Semper Fi! 

Others:  M14 as a Sniper Rifle for Marines?  Nope.  Army yes, Marines no.  Not that I can find anywhere, but remember that Hathcock and Land pretty much wrote the book for Marine Snipers AFTER the M1D was mothballed and during widespread use of the M14 by the corps but they chose the bolt action rifles which the USMC stuck with.

I was able to find no reference at all to M14's used by Marine Snipers during it's period of active use - on the other hand the M2 .50cal WAS actually used by Hathcock so who knows....and yes I said the Ma Duece!  Great story that one.

[OlJarhead]

SUCCESS!!!!

YES!

After all that I was able to put the 9 rounds that I test fired at 45 yards into the 9 and 10 ring with 3 keyholed in one spot and 2 in another from the off-hand.  I'll post more later but suffice to say I was extremely happy!

[firefox]

OlJarhead: Semper Fi!

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I figured the M14 might be a good canditate, but
it makes more sense to have a bolt action for supurior results.
Bruce aka firefox

[OlJarhead]

Nine rounds, 45 yards, off hand, no sling, standing in 4" of snow and shooting over some brush to a target stapled to some old plywood on a nice bank near the cabin


Why 9 rounds?  The answer may not be as you suspect.

With all the trouble I had loading these rounds for my 30-30 I didn't want to load up a bunch and start shooting so I loaded ONE round into the tube magazine, worked the lever and chambered the round, sighted in and shot.

I felt the old familiar recoil and press against my cheekbone.  Nice.  I walked to the target some 45 yards away and found a nice 30 cal hole in the 10!  Sweet.

I then loaded 3 rounds into the tube magazine and shot them out one by one.  Nice recoil, consistent feel, no feeding issues.  I walked to the target and found 3 holes to the right of the 10 in the 9 and 8 ring...ok, I was rushing a little and knew it.

I finally loaded 5 rounds and shot them one by one catching each empty cartridge after firing so I wouldn't have to dig them out of the snow....it felt so right to be shooting my old trusty rifle

Walking down I saw 2 new holes....hmmm....oh wait, a key-hole, make that 3 no 4 no 5!  Yes! 

For not shooting this old girl in a long time, shooting offhand in the snow with no sling, no rest and just about every other 'no' you can think of when it comes to trying to test out ammo much less be accurate I had to smile.  This rifle just doesn't miss (had nothing to do with the old jarhead shooting her either)....even home loaded repressed and questionable loads just seemed to fly down range as if they knew where to go!

I can't wait to shoot more with the time to print them properly to see what they will hold but I have no doubt I could shoot the center out of many targets with this old rifle!

[OlJarhead]

Funny thing I ought to add:  I can't see the sight alignment worth a damn either!  I need some shooting glasses I guess because I could not get a clear front sight post

Damn age!

[firefox]

OlJarhead: In case you are interested one of the old timers on steelsoldiers has a
OTIS Cleaning kit NOS for $100 in the classifieds. I am not connected to this person in any way. Just thought it was a good deal.
Bruce aka firefox

[NM_Shooter]

if you get a rear peep sight for that rifle, you can fit a diopter which will give you some cheat and bring that front post into sharp focus....

Do a google for Bob Jones sights.  Or possibly BJ sights.  i can't remember.....

[NM_Shooter]

Here you go... be sure to check his home page too.

http://www.bjonessights.com/tang.html

[OlJarhead]

OlJarhead: In case you are interested one of the old timers on steelsoldiers has a
OTIS Cleaning kit NOS for $100 in the classifieds. I am not connected to this person in any way. Just thought it was a good deal.
Bruce aka firefox

Nice kits -- but I have an original M14 Cleaning hit   and I mean original NOS military M14 kit in the but stock!  Also have many others.  Also ordered some Gunzilla which should be arriving soon

[OlJarhead]

if you get a rear peep sight for that rifle, you can fit a diopter which will give you some cheat and bring that front post into sharp focus....

Do a google for Bob Jones sights.  Or possibly BJ sights.  i can't remember.....

I actually thought of getting one for my M14 but have to first get a match rear (which is $$$ I'm not ready to spend)....funny thing that, the M14 sights I can use pretty well still (not as well as I should mind you) but the open v-knotch sights really give me trouble.

Anyway, modding the rifle is pretty much out of the question unless a peep sight would fit without additional screws etc....you know what I mean?  I just can't bear the thought of tapping into it!

[NM_Shooter]

Cleaned my reloading bench tonight as part of my push to clean my garage.  It desperately needed it, and I now have much more work space.  Makes me want to build up a bunch of something...... Hmmmmmm.......