post and pier foundation questions

[BigMish]

After getting a few estimates for a crawls space foundation I am now considering post and  pier foundation. A few questions:
- I don't like the way they look, what methods have you used to cover or encase the foundation (any photos would be really helpful).
- I've got no concrete experience: how much of this could I really tackle in a reasonable time frame (don't want to spend more than, say, a month or two on the foundation).
- Can the concrete for such a small pour be reliably prepared on-site in a rented mixer?

Thanks, Mischa

[glenn kangiser]

How about cedar or redwood skirting around the post and pier similar to Rob's place continued down to near ground?

The concrete can be done with a hand mixer but is a lot of work.  Depending on the value of your time, it may be beneficial to pay  a truck to bring it in.  Over a yard I usually do.

[BigMish]

Can you give me Rob's member name so I can ask for some pix?

[John_M]

This may not be what you want to hear but.....I actually delayed the construction of my project for a year or two, to be sure I did (and could afford) everything I wanted to do.  

My crawlspace block foundation for my 18 x 32 cabin cost about $4500 but I feel I made a good decision by doing it that way.  I wanted a post and pier but my particular building inspector talked me out of it (for several reasons).  

Anyways....if you have a certain goal or "look" in mind....be patient!  You don't want to have any regrets down the road once you are finished!

That being said.....concrete is probably the one thing that is best left to experts.  If you make a mistake with a piece of wood...it can be replaced rather easily (usually).  A concrete foundation not being level or out of plumb....I wouldn't know where to begin!!!

whatever you decide.....try to enjoy the journey!!  It is easy to get caught up in the stress of day to day problems!

[John Raabe]

BigMish:

People who come to this forum to help folks out do so on their own time and are under no obligation to provide photos or details on what they have done.

I am very proud of the fine members who support the newer folks here and the time they give. It is a real gift and one not to be abused.

As a member of CountryPlans we do not expect to intrude on the privacy of other members and we should strive to ask only the most important questions, stated as clearly as we can, and only after we have done the research and reading in the books and other resources at the CountryPlans site.

[optionguru]

http://www.countryplans.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1147990285 About midway through this thread you'll see pictures where they are stacking stone around the perimeter to look like a stone foundation.

[BigMish]

John, understood. Just noticed that there was the ability to send "personal messages" through this site. Seemed like a good use of the feature. Didn't mean to step on any toes.

[glenn kangiser]

If you just browse through the ower builder projects, BigMish, you may get ideas that would help you to see somethig you like.  Redwood or cedar are pretty god at resisting bugs and rot an a simple treated lumber frame off of the foundation framing for support would make it work.  Just nail it up and trim it out.  Very simple.

[BigMish]

John_M (or anybody with an option on the matter), what are some of the arguments against post and pier. I've heard critters in the insulation can be a problem (but don't seem a commensurate problem with the additional cost of a perimeter foundation, anything else?

Glenn, will do, thanks for the tip. A question on that actually, is that wood treated? I thought all non-treated wood had to be 8" above grade, is that only for structural wood?

.M

[glenn-k]

I'm not up on code well but here is an excerpt that looks do-able.

2306.8 Wood and Earth Separation. Protection of wood against deterioration as set forth in the previous sections for specified applications is required. [highlight]In addition, wood used in construction of permanent structures and located nearer that 6 inches (152mm) to earth shall be treated wood or wood of natural resistance to decay, as defined in section 2302.1. [/highlight]Where located on concrete slabs placed on earth, wood shall be treated wood or wood of natural resistance to decay. Where not subject to water splash or to exterior moisture and located on concrete having a minimum thickness of 3 inches (76mm) with an impervious membrane installed between concrete and earth, the wood may be untreated and of any species.

2302.1 Definitions. The following terms used in this chapter shall have the meanings indicated in this section:

AWPA is the American Wood-Preservers' Association, PO Box 388, Selma, Alabama 36702 Phone: 334-874-9800 Fax: 334-874-9008

email: email@awpa.com

TREATED WOOD is wood treated with an approved preservative under treating and quality control procedures.

WOOD OF NATURAL RESISTANCE TO DECAY OR TERMITES is the heartwood of the species set forth below. Corner sapwood is permitted on 5 percent of the pieces provided 90 percent or more of the width of each side on which it occurs is heartwood. Recognized species are:

[highlight]Decay resistant: Redwood, Cedars, Black Locust
[/highlight]
Termite resistant: Redwood, Eastern Red Cedar  

http://www.conradfp.com/03.shtml

[youngins]

Another interesting note related to PT:

I learned that Stronge Tie has a tech note out there which suggests to wrap a barrier membrane (They tested Grace Vycor Deck Protecter) around the PT wood wherever anchors are attached.

Grace claims that their product protects against corrosion comparable to before the PT chemicals were changed.

Here are the links:

http://www.strongtie.com/ftp/bulletins/T-PTBARRIER05.pdf

http://www.foxhomecenter.com/lumber2/treated_wrap.htm

[peg_688]

I'm not up on code well but

In fact your almost code defiant arn't you Glenn  

[John_M]

BigMish,

My property was on a slight slope.  I am pretty sure the inspector was concerned with a process called "creep", where the posts would eventually move because of water movement downslope etc.  He also was concerned about the bracing needed to keep the structure solid.  This was because some posts would be higher than others and he wanted any wobble of the structure to be minimized.

He did say that with proper drainage and bracing, he would approve it, but was just concerned that repairs in the future would be inevitable.  Now, hopefully with this foundation, I should be in good shape:

[BigMish]

That's for all the quick feedback, all. I think I'll contact my inspector, see if P&Ps would be possible in my area, if they are I'll plan use them (sheathed in cedar – thanks, Glen) and then once I obtain the lot I'll insure with the inspector that the site is viable for a P&P, if not, I'll go with the crawl space.

[glenn-k]

I'm not up on code well but

In fact your almost code defiant arn't you Glenn  

For me it does not apply, but I do it for my customers or others it may apply to.

Rot happens, code or not. Wood in contact with soil allows fungi to grow and send tendrils into the ground pulling water into the wood continuing decomposition.    Having my own sawmill, I can just replace a board or two when I want to.