Anybody recognize this lumber?

[flyingvan]

 

    I found these 8x12 beams and cut one up for the mantel, now I've cut up more for balusters, railing, and trim.  Before I cut into them I assumed they were old doug fir, just because of the size and the outside splinters looked a bit like it.  When I cut into it though I knew it wasn't a softwood.  Then I just sort of assumed it was red oak----until I saw some red oak.  I found out it's left over from a tall ship building project over 30 years ago.  It's very stable, very few knots, and very heavy if that helps.
     Does anyone know what it is?

[flyingvan]

 

[rick91351]

It might be from one of the several rosewood family.  The gain looks a lot like the grain in the rosewood desk I am writing this from.  Mahogany also even comes to mind.  However you might inquire at one of  the many universities down in S. Cal if they offer a way to test.  To me it really does not look like a North American wood not that I know them all nor pretend to.

If it is rosewood when you get it all milled, fine sanded and finished the grain will be huge multidimensional deep and vivid.             

[Don_P]

Looks like mahogany to me.

[muldoon]

I do not think it is mahogany (based on the pores and grain), nor do I think it is rosewood (mostly based on color).  Perhaps there are varieties of rosewood this light, but I have never seen them ... then again, I am basing that mostly on rosewood guitar necks which may be it's own variety. 

What makes you think it is not a red oak?  I would lean towards white oak or red oak based on the open pores, grain and color. 

Can you get an end grain picture? 
What about the smell after a fresh cut?  Did you notice anything? 

[rick91351]

I do not think it is mahogany (based on the pores and grain), nor do I think it is rosewood (mostly based on color).  Perhaps there are varieties of rosewood this light, but I have never seen them ... then again, I am basing that mostly on rosewood guitar necks which may be it's own variety. 

What makes you think it is not a red oak?  I would lean towards white oak or red oak based on the open pores, grain and color. 

Can you get an end grain picture? 
What about the smell after a fresh cut?  Did you notice anything?

One thing we learned about rosewood and it verities and working with it.  Some will stay red or rose.  Some pales as it ages, my desk is a lighter rosewood with a lighter finish and it is a sort of gold with red tones, it is heavy in grains and pores just like Van's example.  The pores causes a lot of refraction of light.  This gives dimension and depth on the finish so saith my wood finishing instructor.  My desk when I get it all polished and buffed out it looks almost as if it glows with depth.  We have a darker dining room set and it has dimension as well but not like my desk.     

[flyingvan]

I will get an end grain picture.  I don't think it's red oak for two reasons---red oak wasn't used for ship building because its endgrain forms tubes and isn't water tight.   Second, I cut a section and cut through it and couldn't blow through it.  I did the same test with some oak I had (which looks different) and air would pass through it.  It doesn't have the typical rays red oak has. 
When I cut it it smells like oak or olive wood. 
I might get some sodium nitrate from work and test it that way to see if it's white oak.   

[Don_P]

Oaks are a ring porous wood, this is a diffuse porous wood.

Here's more pics and info on my guess.
http://www.wood-database.com/lumber-identification/hardwoods/honduran-mahogany/

edit, these are some board pics that show the overall grain a bit better;
http://www.woodworkerssource.com/mm5/graphics/woods_stacks_scans/closer/Mahogany_Genuine_1.jpg

[flyingvan]

Here's the end grain--  I took one with it dry and one wet


   

[flyingvan]

  I had my wife look at your link, Don---she thinks what we have is redder (I don't see colors so I recruited help)
  The more things I look at, the more I think it's some sort of mahogany.  On one hunk I can count over 80 rings, and I was told it's been sitting around for over thirty years---I'm thinking this tree went horizontal over a century ago.  Still using it for my staircase though.  I still have to read up on rosewood.

[Ernest T. Bass]

Every time I see reddish lumber I think it's cherry--but I'm sure one of you guys would have already guessed that if there was a possibility.. I wouldn't mind being enlightened as to why it's not, however.

[flyingvan]

One of the beams I found is 9x14x 20' long---that would be one hell of a cherry tree

[Don_P]

Cherry doesn't have the open pores this wood has. In oaks you would be seeing medullary rays radiating from pith to bark like spokes on a wheel in the end grain. The pores on the end grain are pretty evenly distributed, diffuse porous, where on woods like oak there are large vessels aligned on the springwood band of each growth ring, ring porous. My planers are at the job but I'll kick around when it gets hot and see if I have some surfaced boards of each. "Mahogany", and what we call mahogany, is a big family and there is tremendous color variation. When Dad got his start with Deck House their trim was "mahogany", everything from blond mahogany, obeche, to honduran, andiroba, luan (one of the shorea's rather than the sweitenia's, the true mahoganys). If you've seen the blond mahogany kitchen tools or some Ikea furniture you've met obeche. The sapwood on the left of your top pic is reminiscent of luan but my guess is this is one of the true mahogany's. I worked for a couple of years in a millwork shop. We were making a run of reproduction secretarys, the original had a one piece top. This was just before the restrictions on export and the owner got a bundle of honduran that was marked FAS16+. Totally clear boards from 16-32" wide, wow what a bundle. This was the reason for its' boom in early furniture, wide clear and stable. It also led to a rash of "pneumonia" type illnesses. When working in confined spaces with many of these woods wear a dust mask or respirator, they can be rough on you. But, I've only planed a stick or two of rosewood for others. The tropicals are certainly not something I've used a whole lot of.

I got the top 4 logs of one of our white pines out of the road and to the mill yesterday afternoon, theres still at least 2 logs worth standing. Off to make lemonade  .

[kalstar]

I'm going to go with Azobe also known as Ironwood.

[flyingvan]

Don---thanks for all that.   Knowing what it isn't helps point to what it is....I did wear a dust mask---(when I work with purpleheart, the dust can make me real sick for days and though I know this isn't purpleheart, it could be something with a cross sensitivity) 
Kalstar---I was unfamiliar with azobe so I looked it up---it's definitely a contender.  It gets big, they used to use it in ship building, it's hard and heavy, and it's rot resistant (the stuff I found has been outside for decades)  The weathered pictures looked exactly like what I found but to me weathered wood looks pretty much all the same (I thought this was doug fir until I went to move it)
I'm going to continue to have fun trying to figure out what I've got here

[Ernest T. Bass]

Cherry doesn't have the open pores this wood has. In oaks you would be seeing medullary rays radiating from pith to bark like spokes on a wheel in the end grain. The pores on the end grain are pretty evenly distributed, diffuse porous, where on woods like oak there are large vessels aligned on the springwood band of each growth ring, ring porous.

Thanks for the info--I knew it wasn't oak, but I guess I can't really judge open grain vs. closed from a picture too well yet..

The only ironwood I'm familiar with is the little stuff we have spread around our property.. The saplings make great replacement garden tool handles, but I've never seen that color (guess that doesn't mean anything though).

[flyingvan]

'Ironwood' can mean so many different things----just about every region has something they call ironwood.  We've got two here---the 'mountain mahogany', and the desert ironwood.  Lignum vitae is often called ironwood

[rick91351]

'Ironwood' can mean so many different things----just about every region has something they call ironwood.  We've got two here---the 'mountain mahogany', and the desert ironwood.  Lignum vitae is often called ironwood

Our Mountain Mahogany here is different that yours down there as well I would bet.  What we call Chaparral here is hardly the Chaparral of the Baja.  I never have tried to ID what it really is.  It always was just chaparral but it does not look like chaparral in the books.  But if I said to a local in the area, "The deer are hanging up there in the chaparral."  He would know what I ment and I guess that is what counts.     

Lignum vitae is a interesting species and a true 'iron wood.'  It is so dense it will not really float.  It was and is still used as wooden bearings where needed because of it natural oils and density.  Specific gravity of 1.37 and weights in at 77 - 82 lbs./cu.ft.  Photos I have seen does look a lot like your wood.  However I am still betting on a species of Rosewood or Mahogany.             

[MikeC]

Your local library may have these books - more info about wood than I can use:

http://www.tauntonstore.com/identifying-wood-understanding-wood-bruce-hoadley-07a713.html

[alex trent]

I believe you will be able to ID what it is not, but just from photos you have of finished wood unlikely you can get a positive ID...maybe close if you get the area it was cut in.  But even way back when, wood came long distances.  Hardness, weight, SG will let you do a matrix that will get you there....if it is all that important.

[flyingvan]

Here it is all varnished

[alex trent]

Just varnish?  Looks great..really a big change with the varnish.

[bayview]

Risking Everything . . .


I would say that lumber . . .


Is a wood product.

/.

[rick91351]

Risking Everything . . .


I would say that lumber . . .


Is a wood product.

/.

We and another family were ordering sofa sets by the container load and running them through three local consignment stores...
 
We were meeting with Ceema Furniture in China.  I asked Gary a Chinese apprentice businessman who worked for a larger group we knew really well.  Gary was our go between had a good basis of English and was willing to learn.  He had no real knowledge of furniture at that time.  He was sort of just off the farm from way way up north.   

"Gray ask them what the frames are made of."

Long discussion and hand justering and typical Chinese yelling at each other to a high pitch.  You would thought it was a high level trade summit.  It was as if we were close to closing a deal on thousands of container loads over months rather than maybe two or three now.  Discussion went silent.

Gary turned and says, "The frames are wood.  Plywood, You know plywood?"  He had a look as if he won a major fight.

"Yes thank you Gary.  We will explain latter." 

I really think Gary thought they were putting one over on us.  Just heard last mouth Gary just got married and was settling in down south very well and was in business for himself now.  I would like to see him again.




   

[PEG688]

I know it's been guessed already but I'm saying it's Honduras Mahogany. It isn't White or Red Oak IMO.