Cabin building advice from a veteran :-) oops. I mean 4WD stuff.

[NM_Shooter]

As I was making a Frankenstein mess out of some plumbing drains on my cabin this weekend, I realized that my personality had changed somewhat.  

Building way, way back in the sticks can be a pain.  If you forget something, you either need to design around it, or give up on the work for that trip.  I've gotten to be good at dropping my aesthetic standards a bit.  Function over form is the only way for me to go.  Safety first, functionality second, beauty third     I built an addition on my house, and it absolutely had to look good too.  This cabin was a deviation from that requirement.  

If you are going to be building a cabin out in the middle of nowhere, you need to either be really good at planning, or really good at accepting compromise.  If you can do both, you are even better off!

[John Raabe]

Deep Thoughts Shooter! 

I agree with your observation.

In fact, the word "funky" is related to the word "functional" but was invented by builders who forgot to bring some of the needed letters.

[NM_Shooter]

Yeah, that's it for this year in terms of deep thoughts.  Sometimes I sits and thinks, but mostly I just sits.

[MushCreek]

This reminds me of a picture I have featuring 12 actual functioning outhouses. Some are fancy antiques, some are functional state park types, but the one that makes me laugh out loud is one that's obviously a very hurried throw-together made out of particle board. It really looks like whoever built had to go- NOW!

[altaoaks]

hey you guys, its altaoaks, im back!  sorry about jumping in and jumping out.  work went crazy, company came and stayed, and life jumped into hyperdrive. 

cabin advice from a vereten is what i need right now.  i have swung back and forth on what we need to build.  my heart wants bigger but my wallet says no way.  i will not be getting into debt, so i guess the no way wins the bid.  i read with delight the post on what tools one needed to build.  i didnt want to sound too dumb or too green, but it was a question i wanted to ask also.  i copied the list!

well, the list of things we forget will be, im sure, very long.  we will be breaking ground as soon as the snow melts next spring.  im still not sure what we start with, but a 2 car garage with a sleeping loft sounds smartest.  then the 20 X 40 cottage looks workable!

but i have one more stupid question for all of you off the beaten path builders out there.  given that we have about 3/4 of a mile of dirt road and possibly 3 foot of snow in the winter, can you give guidence on the best choice of 4X4?  i know not all 4X4s are not created equal, and we need a real crawler for that road in the winter.  i have been told by the neighbor that even with his toyota crawler, he still has weeks that a snowmobile is neessary.  i remember when my daughter got stuck bad on her way back from Ft. Bragg, NC. upon discharge from the army.  she was driving a new dodge nitro.  she had to call a tow truck!  so anyway, can someone educate me on this subject?

ill shoot some pictures as soon as i sit down and figure out how to post them.

[MountainDon]

Chains help a lot, front and read is best.  Tall skinny tires, not fat ones are best.  However, most 4x4's will be defeated by 12 inches of snow, no matter what, IMO.

Is the road more or less smooth ans straight? Adding elevation changes and turns, plus side slants causes all sorts of troubles.

That's why we snowshoe where the XJ has trouble.

[considerations]

Just remember that it is possible for snow to get so deep that you can lose the road.  It can be a bummer.

[MountainDon]

Just remember that it is possible for snow to get so deep that you can lose the road.  It can be a bummer.

  Some may be surprised at just how quickly things look different, how easy it is to lose the road, until they ventures into the pristine snow covered area they were certain they knew like the back of their hand. When the fence post tops are no longer visible it really changes things.

[Solar Burrito]

hey you guys, its altaoaks, im back!  sorry about jumping in and jumping out.  work went crazy, company came and stayed, and life jumped into hyperdrive. 

cabin advice from a vereten is what i need right now.  i have swung back and forth on what we need to build.  my heart wants bigger but my wallet says no way.  i will not be getting into debt, so i guess the no way wins the bid.  i read with delight the post on what tools one needed to build.  i didnt want to sound too dumb or too green, but it was a question i wanted to ask also.  i copied the list!

well, the list of things we forget will be, im sure, very long.  we will be breaking ground as soon as the snow melts next spring.  im still not sure what we start with, but a 2 car garage with a sleeping loft sounds smartest.  then the 20 X 40 cottage looks workable!

but i have one more stupid question for all of you off the beaten path builders out there.  given that we have about 3/4 of a mile of dirt road and possibly 3 foot of snow in the winter, can you give guidence on the best choice of 4X4?  i know not all 4X4s are not created equal, and we need a real crawler for that road in the winter.  i have been told by the neighbor that even with his toyota crawler, he still has weeks that a snowmobile is neessary.  i remember when my daughter got stuck bad on her way back from Ft. Bragg, NC. upon discharge from the army.  she was driving a new dodge nitro.  she had to call a tow truck!  so anyway, can someone educate me on this subject?

ill shoot some pictures as soon as i sit down and figure out how to post them.

Brands of truck will not help you. There are a million factors that would determine how much traction you'd get. Locking differentials? Clearance? Tires? Chains? Studs? wheel base? Weight? etc etc. You might want to talk to some friends that know more about this.

3 feet of snow you say? I'd say buy a snowmobile.

20x40 is a cottage now??? I guess it depends on how big your house is.


Now back to the Cabin vet's advice. That make me feel better about our project. We frequently run out of material late saturdays or sundays when the local hardware store is closed and we have no way to get materials. That's why you will find 4x4's ripped into 2x4's for our studs and even some pressure treated wood that allowed us to put up our wall and keep moving with our project.

[altaoaks]

20 by 40 sounds nice, but as the reality of what it costs to build mounts, and the 4X4, snowmobile, yada yada yada, my dreams seem to get smaller and smaller.  we plan on building cash and carry as we go, no debt.  yep, we might end up with a 12 X 12!

hey people, the road disappears??!!! i had not envisioned that yet, what a rude wake-up call.  well, will breadcrumbs help?

[altaoaks]

  one more thing, and thanks mushcreek for the prompt, outhouses!  well that may actually be the first build.  bushes dont excite me.  actually outhouses dont either, but if its one or the other ill take the outhouse.  i remember the one at my aunts ranch outside tuccumari.  basic and very old.  so what do you do, build a small footprint and dig a hole.  doesnt sound like it requires much but shelter.  but just in case i will take any advice beyond that.  hey, i surley dont need a building permit for that do i?  if i do they can kiss this...ill then look for info on building an underground outhouse.  (i actually really loved that underground cabin). 

[Jeff922]

Some good perspective there NM.  I was very frustrated with my wood floor as it is not par with my normal standards, but I just have to move on.  I had to remind myself that some things about this build went as expected, some less so, and on occasion, some things even exceeded my expectations.  So it all evens out in the end.  I think it's important to take each task as an exclusive, individual project and to do the best possible job on that.  

Altaoaks, why not get some snowshoes and make it part of the adventure.  You can always upgrade to a snowmobile as money permits - and then a snowcat when you win the lottery.  We have had to make some of these compromises to get our project off the ground.  For example, we are heating with wood because we just don't have the money to install anything else right now.  We did put radiant tubing in the foundation so when the day comes we will be ready.  It's going to be a little uncomfortable I'm sure, but hey, being a little cold in our house is better than no house.  Good luck!  

Oh, this book is a great resource on all things outhouse and plans on how to build a really nice one. (our public library has this book)

http://www.amazon.com/Cottage-Water-Systems-Out-City/dp/096969220X

[altaoaks]

jeff922, thanks for the heads-up on that book, looks like it has some good 411.  i am going to order it.  since the cottage/cabin/whatever the heck im doing/ is going to be a time away and in the meantime, comfort is as good as you can get, (bushes doesnt make me feel confortable).

hey, im sure your just over-critiquing the wood floor.  i bet it has tremendous rustic charm, and if nothing else, it sure did build some charactor didnt it!  my thoughts (for what they are worth) is that you are shooting for perfection, and thats a lot of pressure in a cabin/cottage build.  i will bet all your friends envy every square inch of your build AND your wood floor!

[davidj]

  Some may be surprised at just how quickly things look different, how easy it is to lose the road, until they ventures into the pristine snow covered area they were certain they knew like the back of their hand. When the fence post tops are no longer visible it really changes things.

After we'd had our place for a couple of years I was snow-shoeing in after a big snowfall (deep enough to cover all of the bushes) and it was hard to work out where the road was.  However, I'd driven in 50 times or more and I was following some other foot tracks so thought I was fine - until about 1/4 mile from the start when the tracks turned 90 degrees on what should be a straight section.  Then I realized I was way off the road and the tracks were heading back to where the road was.  I felt so stupid for getting lost right near the beginning of the trail.  That was until I met my neighbor who made the tracks - he'd been skiing in for 10 years and still lost the road!  Recently another neighbor tied little marker flags in trees every 100 yds or so - now when you haven't seen a marker for a while you know you're lost!!

[OlJarhead]

If you have an excellent rig, V-groove chains and a good plow blade you can get almost anywhere -- when the snow isn't too much for the plow anyway.

3/4 of a mile is nothing really unless it's buried in 4 feet of snow and then snow shoes or snowmobiles will be the ticket.

I was raised in BC and in places like Hazelton BC or Vanderhoof, Fort Saint James etc etc -- yes it got cold, VERY cold.  4' feet of snow?  Which spring?  Driving across the lake because it was shorter?  Don't you?

Imagine watching rigs divert a highway because the lake ice is so think tanks could drive on it -- ya, it happens.

So, that being said, 3 feet of snow isn't difficult to deal with if you have a plow   But I wouldn't attempt 4 wheeling through it because before you know it you'll have snow packed inside you wheel wells so tightly that a blow torch won't help!  And of course, you'll no longer be on a road.

I've seen a big Ford F250 PS 4x4 defeated by 15" of snow...but at the same time I watched a Toyota with 3" of lift and 35" tires (think they were 35's) drive right past the truck (my work truck by the way) and continue on the remaining 1/2 miles to the cell site I was aiming for -- I caught up with him mind you, on my snowmobile.

He drove out and while the sled was faster he had no problems.  Why?  Lockers.  He was driving a TRUE 4 wheel drive.

I drove my Dodge 1/2 ton 4x4 to pine grove when I was working for Williams on the long haul network out of Portland (to Las Vegas) in 15" of snow and had no problems at all.  Even put the stupid chains on to try them out but I was coming DOWN by then and just playing.  Different snow that day.  It was fresh and dry while the other situation was old and wet.

You see, several factors can impact your success.

I never seriously used chains -- never, not even in Canada -- until last winter when I ran into 4" of solid ice on a very steep grade and started looking over a drop....I then (you can find it here somewhere) learned about V-groove chains from Don and others and thanks to board members am a believer

In Canada we always had 4 studded snow tires and that worked for all applications we needed them for!  I once plowed through 18" of snow in a Honda Civic -- I have a pic somewhere I'll scan for you! hahaha was crazy.

So, in closing, a good 4 wheel drive will get you places or it will get you into trouble because you thought you could get there.  Be prepared (carry a survival kit at all times in the winter) and consider a plow blade - some of them are cheaper then the 3" lift and big tires I've got

[MaineRhino]

We trailer our Rhino to within a mile of our camp, then unload and drive it up.





So far, so good. Except for one time when we walked. Any snow covered road will (usually) get better when packed down from frequent use.  Snowmobiles have their place too, but are difficult to pack a load and a passenger at the same time.

[Jeff922]

That is one sweet rig MaineRhino!   

[Rover]

Re prepping for cabin work.  My cabin is approx 2 hrs from home and there aren't any convenient hardware stores around the cabin.  I find it tough getting out there with 2 young kids at home and busy job; so I have to be as productive as possible whenever I get away.
So, whenever I'm up there I aways take pics of incomplete work and anything else of the cabin.  That way when I'm home dreaming of details to finish the cabin, I don't have to rely on my memory.  Also, since my Blackberry is always with me I type in any tools or supplies I will need for the next trip up.  I'm quite anal retentive, and hate looking at something I could have built better.

[rick91351]

Wow MaineRhino I love that rig.  How long have you used it?  Plus and minus in make or design?  Can you buy the full cab kit for it?  I have never been around a Rhino.  I was around a Arctic Cat Prowler one or twice and thought they were good.  Except for when one guy tipped his over in the road and almost took his leg off and scattered his niece as well.  My wife was not impressed the side by sides after that.  But then I tipped my 650 over on me once and she was not impressed with that as well.  Hard to impress her even after 40 years.... 

     

[MaineRhino]

It is a 2005 which I purchased new. We love it! Tires in the dry months, and tracks in the winter.

Yes, a full cab can be purchased, but is very $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.  $3K?

I've never tipped it, but did come close once. I have rolled every other 4 wheeler I have owned. This is very stable, and by installing the side doors (not shown) and using the seatbelt, it is very safe. That is, unless one drives like an idiot.

With the tracks I can climb a 4' snow bank.





Good for ice fishing too! (Beverly Hillbilly style!)