well recovery help

[atomicskier]

Hi all,
   we've bought a place with an original well and I'm hoping for some suggestions because I'm out of ideas. the previous owners cut everything apart and let the pipes fall into the well shaft. approximately 4 feet down the large pvc shaft I can barely grasp the two black pipes that I assume are connected to the pump. dropping a weighted string I hit water at 32 feet and I would love to put a hand pump on this well. no matter what I do I can't pull those pipes and pump back out - mostly because it's so hard to grab and hold them. I'm not sure if the well is silted in or if the pump has somehow dropped below the main shaft and become caught. All of the well service places (both of them that is) say they can only help me if they can get a truck to it but we're blocked by the house and mature trees and I'm not for cutting a tree down. there's simply no way to get a truck to this well at this point.
   Is there a way to tell if my well is silted in? ideas on how to get this stuff out of there so I can hook up a hand pump? is there any harm in leaving what's there as is and trying to feel the lines for a hand pump around it? If the well is silted in, given it's relatively shallow depth, is there anything I can do without a truck present?
thanks!
Mark

[alex trent]

How big is he pipe that is stuck four feet down?

Three Rube Goldberg things come to mind.

1. Insert an expanding device into the pipe and turn the screw to expand it.  Might gain enough grip to pull it up. Certainly will have more than your grip.

2. Get a vise grip device over one edge and try to snap it shut with a rod.

3. If the stuck pipe is PVC, coat a coupler to the right size to fit over the pip or inside it tightly with PVC glue and stick it on.  If you can do that to will be strong enough to lift the pipe if it can be lifted.  This is where I would start.

[atomicskier]

best guess the pipe is 1" or 1.25" - looked all through lowes and didn't find anything that would fit. my first thought was to glue an extension to it and hoist that up. what's in there is thicker than any of the irrigation pipes, but not so rigid as black/white indoor plumbing pvc.

[alex trent]

You might still try that.

Put in a smaller pipe..say 1/2" OD coated with glue down a full foot into the well pipe. Jam another piece of pipe or wood to press the coated pipe onto the wall of the well pipe. Even though you do not have a full pipe glue joint, this is really strong and I think if the pipe can be pulled up this will hold.

[rick91351]

Some thing is no sounding right about this -  Two pipes    

What size well casing are you looking at?  You say it is PVC

Are you sure there was a submersible pump in the well?

It just does not sound like anything legal here in this state.  I have helped pull several well pipes with submersible pumps and they are all the same.  Plus we have two wells both with iron casings.  Both only have one pipe which is inch and a quarter iron well pipe.  On the end is a submersible pump with wire taped off to the well pipe.  One well is over 300 ft and one is 200 ft the pipe is then hangs from a pitless adapter.  The well cap connects to the casing and the conduit which beings the electricity to the well head.  But then maybe everywhere is different.     

If you do drop a hand pump in there I would sure boil the water for domestic use until I got it tested.  There just sounds like there has been to much disturbance and stuff you don't know about to let me feel warm and fuzzy about this well.

rlr
   

[Redoverfarm]

You say you hit water at 32'.  Most likely is the static level and not actually the depth of the well.  Two black pipes  sounds as if it is regular water line pipe but why two.  The only reason which is remotely possible is that one is for the water and they used one for the conduit to run the electric to the pump.Not exactly normal but what in this world is.    If it is only 4' you could try a couple of things.  One being using a "T" handle of galvanized pipe made up with a 5' leg. I have one that I use to hold/pull the pitless adapter on mine. On the end find something with threads (course) and try screwing it into the inside of the pipe maybe even a larger lag bolt or similar attached to the "t" handle.  Think "easy out" process.  Another one would be to use a treble hook (large) with a high tensel line.  If there is anything attached (vibration spacers, clamps, wires) it should be able to hook something.  You will only be pulling 4' just to get it to the well casing top where you can grab it so it should hold. Be prepared for some weight depending on the depth of the well because it will be heavy with the pump and attached pipe full of water.  If the previous owner just cut it loose and it is 4' below the casing I would say that the pump was only originally set 4' off the bottom.  Hard to tell how deep until you can get the pump and attached hardware out.  4' is not much distance at the bottom but I doubt that it has silted up or the pump would have not free falled that 4'.  I usually  set mine at 10' at the least.  Keep us informed on just how/if you get it pulled out.

[atomicskier]

thanks for the info. the pipes I'm trying to rescue sit inside a white pvc pipe that I'd guess is 5" diameter - my entire arm fits comfortably down it when I try to grab the little pipes. there's a brick housing around the well head, I'm going to see if I can't get a chain hoist or come-along attached to those black pipes somehow - that should serve.

[BassLakeBucki]

Don't know if this would work on plastic pipe but to get a bite on steel pipe, I have been able to wrap chain around it a number of times like a noose in order to pull up with a jack or hoist. I would be very careful about pulling too hard so as not to break the pipe further down the casing leaving you nothing to grab. Maybe you can set up a tripod over the well to hoist from.

[rdzone]

This might be a crazy idea (and it might not meed code), but it sounds like your well casing is white pvc.  You could dig out around the casing 2-4 feet and cut the casing it would let you get to the black poly pipes.  If you get the pump and poly pulled you can use a coupler to glue the pieces of pvc back together.

Just another thought.

[glenn kangiser]

My guess would be that it is a jet pump down in the well.  They take two pipes.  Water is pumped down to pressure the jet which then pushes even more water back up the other pipe.



I have made lots of fishing tools and generally get the pipe out of the well. 

A tripod can be made out of three 20' joints of 1 1/2 inch or so pipe and stood above the well to hold a chain hoist.

I take a piece of 4 inch or so pipe and make a one way flapper with an edge that will bite into the pipe and pull it out.  another way is to make a hook that will catch on the couplers and pull it out.

To clean or test the well put a 3/4 to 1" air line down the well as deep as it will go being careful not to ram it full of mud at the bottom.  You could start with about twice the water depth of pipe first if you like so about 64 feet.  Hook a big air compressor to it - say about 100 cfm or so.  Have a shutoff valve on the compressor air line.  Deeper brings more water.  you may want to tie the pipe down to keep from blowing it out of the well if you use light pipe.  Deeper is better.  1 to 1 submergence will bring about 1 gallon of water per cfm of air or 100 gpm with a 100 cfm compressor.  2 to 1 will bring about 2 gallons of water per cfm of air - setting for this would be about 96 feet deep. 

All of this is based on the supposition that the well is capable of producing that much water and would be under ideal conditions. If sand is coming out with the water do not shut the air off until the water runs clear.  At that point shut it off a few seconds then turn it back on and leave it until the water clears again.

I am assuming you have some welding and fabrication abilities or can get help who does.

[rick91351]

Thanks Glenn I have never seen one of those.  Will have to file it in the memory banks.   

[glenn kangiser]

I just had to get a bigger hard drive... for back up and storing the excess......