Does this kind of attic framing exist? It works or not. Pictures

[jory425]

Hi All,
Any problem with the kind of ridge beam?
It works or not?

Thanks    guys

I updated the stracture picture

[jory425]

Please Help.
The kind of attic framing looks weird to me.

Any suggestions?

[Don_P]

It's not good, it seems to be working. Are the props over a wall or other load bearing? The rafters look to be undersized, much sag?

[old_guy]

With the rafters just sitting in the ridge beam/board, it must actually function as a beam.  It is too small to be adequate for that job without those props.  The props will not be adequate unless, as Don said, they are sitting on something strong enough to hold up the roof.

I also do not see any collar ties, strapping, or whatever to hold the tops of the rafters together.  Collar ties in this case might actually help by holding the rafter tops apart, as if they were leaned on a ridge board, to help them resist sagging.

[jory425]

It's a little saggy. See picture

I didn't see the wall bow out.  The shingles are kind of new on roof though.

It's not good, it seems to be working. Are the props over a wall or other load bearing? The rafters look to be undersized, much sag?

[jory425]

Is it a serious problem? How much does it cost to make it functional. 

Thank you guys for your input

With the rafters just sitting in the ridge beam/board, it must actually function as a beam.  It is too small to be adequate for that job without those props.  The props will not be adequate unless, as Don said, they are sitting on something strong enough to hold up the roof.

I also do not see any collar ties, strapping, or whatever to hold the tops of the rafters together.  Collar ties in this case might actually help by holding the rafter tops apart, as if they were leaned on a ridge board, to help them resist sagging.

[ChugiakTinkerer]

That sag in the ridge sure looks serious to me.  If you are considering buying this building you should probably consult with a house inspector.  The cost to get this house up to code is going to depend on local conditions and requirements, information anyone would need to know to give an accurate cost estimate.

[jory425]

I forget to say the size of the house.
It's around 1000 sq ft.

That sag in the ridge sure looks serious to me.  If you are considering buying this building you should probably consult with a house inspector.  The cost to get this house up to code is going to depend on local conditions and requirements, information anyone would need to know to give an accurate cost estimate.

[PEG688]

It's worked for year, BUT it's surely not done properly.
So what is your connection to this building?
If you are looking at buying it , don't unless the land under the building is what you are after.
If you're looking at it to decide how you'd build another structure this in NOT  a good example of how to frame a roof.
If you just curious by nature and wanted to know IF this is the way to build a solid structure I've answered that above.

So the answer is "it depends"

[JRR]

I'm curious to know how old this structure is.  Is that tongue-and groove sheathing?   Haven't seen that for a few years.  The lumber looks to be full-dimension or even custom dimensioned. ??

If I suddenly possessed this building, I would accept that the structure has not failed thus far ... but perhaps could use some help.  Collar ties for sure!   Hurricane straps all the way to the foundation.  A couple of load bearing cables with turn-buckles, "sister'd" with joists, might prevent later wall outward lean.  Can the roof load be lessened?  Perhaps single ply roll roofing, or metal, after existing shingles are removed.  A number of things might be done to improve the changes of survival.

[jory425]

I'm looking at buying it.   
so you don't recommend to buy the house. Is the ridge beam too small to support all the rafters?

I guess cheapest way to go is collar ties and support beams with center wall on first floor. 

It's worked for year, BUT it's surely not done properly.
So what is your connection to this building?
If you are looking at buying it , don't unless the land under the building is what you are after.
If you're looking at it to decide how you'd build another structure this in NOT  a good example of how to frame a roof.
If you just curious by nature and wanted to know IF this is the way to build a solid structure I've answered that above.

So the answer is "it depends"

[PEG688]

 I won't buy a house with that sort of poor framing on the roof unless I planned on demo-ing the structure. I wouldn't want to live in it , nor rent it.

I large snow load could collapse the roof, a small earthquake could do the same. If the roof is that poorly framed , the rest of the structure will be similar.

The ridge beam, isn't really a beam, it's more a ridge board installed like it's a beam. The rafters aren't connected to one another , they are maybe toe nailed to the 2x6 ridge board / beam, which really isn't either one the way it done.

The walls are spreading , most likely that's caused the swale in the roof.
It's just all round poorly done, which is why you have the issues you noted.
  No I wouldn't buy it , unless the land is what has value.

[jory425]

Thank you for your inpurt.

I'm curious to know how old this structure is.  Is that tongue-and groove sheathing?   Haven't seen that for a few years.  The lumber looks to be full-dimension or even custom dimensioned. ??

If I suddenly possessed this building, I would accept that the structure has not failed thus far ... but perhaps could use some help.  Collar ties for sure!   Hurricane straps all the way to the foundation.  A couple of load bearing cables with turn-buckles, "sister'd" with joists, might prevent later wall outward lean.  Can the roof load be lessened?  Perhaps single ply roll roofing, or metal, after existing shingles are removed.  A number of things might be done to improve the changes of survival.

[jory425]

The rest of structure is fine.  The only weird part I found is the attic framing.
The structure is like the picture below.

I won't buy a house with that sort of poor framing on the roof unless I planned on demo-ing the structure. I wouldn't want to live in it , nor rent it.

I large snow load could collapse the roof, a small earthquake could do the same. If the roof is that poorly framed , the rest of the structure will be similar.

The ridge beam, isn't really a beam, it's more a ridge board installed like it's a beam. The rafters aren't connected to one another , they are maybe toe nailed to the 2x6 ridge board / beam, which really isn't either one the way it done.

The walls are spreading , most likely that's caused the swale in the roof.
It's just all round poorly done, which is why you have the issues you noted.
  No I wouldn't buy it , unless the land is what has value.

[PEG688]

Well you seem to be committed to buying it, so IF you do buy it:

  Get in the attic and make sure there is a center partition like you show in the later posts , and NOT a offset one like you show in the original post.

I'd lay a 2x12 ramp on top of the floor joist from end to end. Then I'd rip some 2x6 with the roof pitch angle on the top , I'd tack one one each side staggering the butt joints on the existing ridge board , just one nail on each end of the 2x6's being added , then I'd get bottle jacks set up at the joints and I'd slowly jack up the ridge , which will mean breaking back the shingles around the chimney so the framing can go up.

If you're unwilling or unable to get the framing to go up , you could just get the added 2x6's up as high as possible to stiffen the roof / ridge board , then nail the pi$$ out of it , and add posts at the seams after you've straighten it , or at least shored it up as well as you can.
 
I'd then use coil straps nailed to the rafter sides , that go up over the ridge , loop the strap around the ridge , then back to the other side rafter, so they are attached and the ridge as well is trapped , making it harder for the rafters to separate at the ridge .

  Good luck.

[ChugiakTinkerer]

Unless the the roof was built by one person and the rest of the house built by another, I seriously doubt that the rest of the house is fine.  My house was built only about 33 years ago but I've had cause to make occasional repairs.  Every time I take a peek behind the drywall I find something where the builder flat out did things wrong.  It's gotten to where I now refer to him as Captain CutCorner, because it seems he took every opportunity to cut a corner and slap together the house as quickly as possible.

The roof framing you've shown us illustrates very clearly that the builder had no clue how to do it right.  I would assume the same degree of cluelessness is present throughout the house.  If you're set on buying the house, at least spring for a proper inspection.  You'll then have something in hand to take to the seller to justify your offer which should be low enough to cover the cost of repairs.

[jory425]

I double check all pictures.  Just guess. Seams like they moved the wall to the side a little bit when they tried to decorate the house to make living room bigger and one bed room smaller.
The good thing is I haven't bought it yet.
I need to put a strong support beam back to where it was on first floor. And move the wall back too to make it look nicer. seems like a lot of work already. how much does it cost?

It's sad to see someone to destroy the house by making bad moves.  to make trouble out of nothing(No zuo no die)

Thank you

Unfortunately the correct picture is

Well you seem to be committed to buying it, so IF you do buy it:

  Get in the attic and make sure there is a center partition like you show in the later posts , and NOT a offset one like you show in the original post.

I'd lay a 2x12 ramp on top of the floor joist from end to end. Then I'd rip some 2x6 with the roof pitch angle on the top , I'd tack one one each side staggering the butt joints on the existing ridge board , just one nail on each end of the 2x6's being added , then I'd get bottle jacks set up at the joints and I'd slowly jack up the ridge , which will mean breaking back the shingles around the chimney so the framing can go up.

If you're unwilling or unable to get the framing to go up , you could just get the added 2x6's up as high as possible to stiffen the roof / ridge board , then nail the pi$$ out of it , and add posts at the seams after you've straighten it , or at least shored it up as well as you can.
 
I'd then use coil straps nailed to the rafter sides , that go up over the ridge , loop the strap around the ridge , then back to the other side rafter, so they are attached and the ridge as well is trapped , making it harder for the rafters to separate at the ridge .

  Good luck.

[jory425]

.

[Don_P]

Usually those bad moves are made out of ignorance rather than malice. Regular people that simply don't know how much they don't know. When somebody knows better, then you have evil. Especially on older buildings it is usually the former. I agree with the others, unless the land is what you really want I would suggest passing on this one from what we are seeing. When I see vinyl on an old house it is covering failed siding. What caused that siding to become unacceptable? Could be it was simply aged out or it could be covering a problem. As often as not those siding jobs leak water in between layers of siding and at the same time the added layers slow drying down. Vinyl on old houses, the kiss of death. When it is an older person in an older home, sure, it keeps that last generation in their home. When the heirs try to sell it, well, it is worth the land under it.

If the foundation and walls are worth working from, I would strip the roof down to the walls, order trusses that span from outside wall to outside wall, and then repair. Count on it being a gut job with suprises.

It might be possible to lift and support in some way like PEG suggested. It might be possible to use the existing wall as load bearing with some modification. It might then be possible to brace the roof from there up to the rafters and ridge. I've also site built trusses that can clear span from wall to wall, it might be possible to use what is existing, add and connect things better. All of those options would possibly save finishes already there, you would need an engineer to verify all of those if's above and design something that would work.