Living with no income

ridin434 · January 21, 2012, 01:27:07 PM

This is my first post on here, and I am asking a little advice. I used to be on this forum daily, but ended up getting too busy with other things to finish my cabin/home plan.

Here is my situation:

I am 23 years old and am working on finishing college. I am in some debt, but nothing serious. I "have" a job, but am laid off indefinitely because it is winter and I have been doing septic inspections. Only about 2 classes left before I graduate with a BA.

I was lucky enough to inherit 80 acres of wooded land, away from large cities, but only about 5 miles from a small town. In 2007 I started building a cabin just to stay at on weekends. I started building this cabin before doing enough planning, and it is 14x18 with a storage loft. Open floor plan, and have a walk out with sliding door.

Where I am going with this is that I paid my lease through the end of June at the place I am renting, and will have little money after that and want to move to my cabin until I get another job or find somewhere else to live. Right now the cabin has no insulation and a barrel stove, which keeps it more than warm, but is a little scary to leave burning if I am not there. I have no electricity or water hook-ups at the site.

The cabin is dried in, and has sheetrock on the inside, but no flooring just plywood. I will soon insulate the floor, since it is a post and pier construction design.

Does anyone have any suggestions for living in this place *somewhat* normally for a few months? I have a grill, and that is my only cooking tool at the moment.

ridin434 · January 21, 2012, 01:42:22 PM

Forgot to mention I am living in Central/Northern MN. Cabin is not insulated at the moment, but I am planning on using blown insualtion in the roof and stuff spaces (since its already sheetrocked).

I didn't really ask a specific question. There is plenty of water nearby, I can drive to a family members house and fill up a few barrels if I can find some. I have an outhouse for waste. I guess what I am asking for is some tips from people who have done what I am planning on doing, off the grid. Thanks.

January 21, 2012, 03:19:28 PM

Hmmm......

First I'll ask: what is your camping experience? Dutch Oven cooking? Camp cooking?

Do you have an outhouse? Porta-pot? Composting toilet?

Grey water disposal? How will you wash? Wash dishes? Keep things cool (Fridge?)

Will there be any power? Generator? Solar? Batteries charged by Generator?

The insulation is less of a worry that many other things that come to mind but it certainly would have been nice before putting drywall up. Can you remove the drywall and then re-install? Or has it been mudded etc?

I'd look at some of the simple things first (like storing food, cooking, washing, bathing, relieving one's self etc) and then consider the insulation, heating, entertainment etc.

It can be done and done VERY cheaply so take heart in knowing that, and living full time in the cabin means LOTS of time to work on the cabin.

My main concern would be keeping food from spoiling, getting water and being able to clean myself, dishes, clothes etc as well as being able to relieve oneself without contaminating the area.

ridin434 · January 21, 2012, 03:49:10 PM

Quote from: OlJarhead on January 21, 2012, 03:19:28 PM
Hmmm......

First I'll ask: what is your camping experience? Dutch Oven cooking? Camp cooking?

The only camp cooking I have done is roasting things on the fire. I have a grill, and haven't used a dutch oven though. I am not exactly a high maintenance person

Do you have an outhouse? Porta-pot? Composting toilet?

It is an out house (hole in ground with shack) but I have also build myself a composting toilet but haven't used it for more than a weekend

Grey water disposal? How will you wash? Wash dishes? Keep things cool (Fridge?)

This is one thing I haven't figured out. I was planning on using ice to keep things cool, unless I can find a camper refrigerator somewhere-then I would use propane.

Will there be any power? Generator? Solar? Batteries charged by Generator?

I have a few marine batteries, but have only used them one at a time with my inverter. I think is is only a 1000 watt inverter, so it is just for light use.

The insulation is less of a worry that many other things that come to mind but it certainly would have been nice before putting drywall up. Can you remove the drywall and then re-install? Or has it been mudded etc?

Yes. It has been mudded. I wish I would have insulated prior to doing this, but it was originally a summer hangout/deer hunting shack.

I'd look at some of the simple things first (like storing food, cooking, washing, bathing, relieving one's self etc) and then consider the insulation, heating, entertainment etc.

It can be done and done VERY cheaply so take heart in knowing that, and living full time in the cabin means LOTS of time to work on the cabin.

My main concern would be keeping food from spoiling, getting water and being able to clean myself, dishes, clothes etc as well as being able to relieve oneself without contaminating the area.

Thanks for helping me with some of the ideas I have missed.

OlJarhead · January 21, 2012, 08:12:24 PM

With a dutch oven and some charcoal you can cook all kinds of things like chicken, roasts, breads and more -- might be worth looking into

Here is a picture of doing just that:

It doesn't take much coal either. A dozen top and bottom will do most things. The tripod isn't required but helps to keep the pot off the coals for better heat.

Since you have an outhouse you're good there.

For insulation blowing it in is the option you have. Rent a unit from HD and blow it in by drilling a hole into the drywall in each bay and plugging it when done.

For washing dishes etc, you'll need a means of heating water (wood stove perhaps) and a bin to put the water and dishes in -- get a plastic wash tub from your local kitchen store (bed bath and beyond might have them as well as an Ace hardware store).

Personal hygiene can be accomplished with a 'cup' shower. In the military we used to use a canteen cup and soap and water. This works in a pinch but a better option is a camp solar shower (a black bag filled with water and hung out to warm up and shower beneath.

Of course using a shower at someones house will always be nice when possible.

Keeping food cool can be done with a camper stove (should be easy to find out of an old camper) and a 5lbs propane tank.

Get a good battery charger and run the batteries in parallel to give you more capacity. You might not have to run the generator much to keep them topped off and if you can invest in a small solar unit (~$300 at costco) you can trickle charge them when not at home. This would give you enough power to run some lights etc for short periods of time. Use CFL's to lower the wattage used to extend life and perhaps invest in oil lamps as they don't require much lamp oil to provide minimal light -- this one I bought on line and though it isn't the brightest it works well enough for relaxing evenings at the cabin:

I've been told and read that one filling can last many days.

A high quality cooler that's kept out of the sun can keep things cool for 2-4 days depending on quality and ambient air temps as well as how often you get into it.

Laundry is an issue but a good wash rack and a stream can facilitate small load washes and a clothesline will get them dry

I think it's quite doable but have lots of books on hand to read! It can get boring for non-readers in the evenings.

January 23, 2012, 07:06:12 PM

I have been looking into some of the oil lamps like that, except the fuel seems kind of expensive. I have been doing some experiments with olive oil lamps, but they don't seem to put out much like. Anyone use these white gas/kerosene type lamps regularly?

After seeing that dutch oven like that, I think there is one that has been sitting in my Dad's basement that has been collecting dust for years!

rick91351 · January 23, 2012, 07:45:27 PM

Aladdin lamps are kerosene but they use a mantle. They produce roughly the illumination of a 60 watt bulb. They also produce a lot of heat. If you can find one of those some where used it would be an idea. New they are pretty expensive, but I have never seen one used.

I have cooked a lot in a dutch. They work very well. I have never had a rig as fancy as Oldjardhead. I just use a pit with some coals and scatter a few coal on the top. Just like he says you can cook anything in one. None of mine have the feet, so we use they all the time from on the stove, in the oven or like camping up at the ranch. They come with dome lids or the type jarhead shows. One thing you really need is a hook to remove the lid and move oven when cooking out side such as this.

There was a very good article in Fine Homebuilding February / March 2012 issue page 20 on patching dry wall. It would come in very handy if you decided to blow in isolation into your walls. Basically carefully remove a piece of sheetrock save it. Then use the info in the article to add it back.

ridin434 · January 23, 2012, 09:35:07 PM

I have done MORE than plenty drywall work, including taping and mudding- that is no problem. The biggest issue for me is spending a small amount to make these improvements.

I have used Coleman lanterns a lot in the fish house in the winter. On nice days they can keep the insulated 8' x 6' house with a 7' ceiling around 60*. The Aladdin lamps look like they would work well, but seem expensive. I was more looking to use a few cheap dietz hurricane lanterns, and then they can be used for multi purpose also. I think for in summer using a small solar panel charging system with a couple batteries would work fine after doing some more research. I would need to invest in some LED lights, they would only need to be used a few hours a day.

Next time I swing back to my Dad's place, I will have to grab that dutch oven and do some practicing. I have gotten spoiled living in a 3BR house for a couple years having pretty much unlimited gas/electric. The one thing that I don't think I could live without running off of the batteries would be a laptop, grabbing internet from a cell phone.

Thanks for the help everyone.

Mark

rick91351 · January 23, 2012, 10:13:57 PM

The old Dietz lamp never work as good as they do in Hollywood. They are indeed multi functional. It never hurts to be more self relent.

January 23, 2012, 10:19:24 PM

I am sure they are just enough to see, but not do anything that requires seeing well. After reading they only have a couple candlepower, LED lights sound more like the way to go. Not saying I won't pick up a couple just to have around, and maybe to grab some firewood after dark from the pile.

muldoon · January 24, 2012, 11:54:52 AM

I guess I just don't understand why "no income" instead of "low income".

I think there are lots of ways to generate some level of revenue. What do you plan to do once you finish college?

ridin434 · January 24, 2012, 12:40:50 PM

You are very correct muldoon. I will have some income, but it won't be a lot since I have school bills to pay. I am trying to move towards "living within my means" rather than spend spend spend.

When I finish school I will have a Technology Management degree, with an emphasis in construction management and also industrial technology. What I would like to do would be some type of machine shop work or just try to get started pretty much anywhere I can.

rocking23nf · January 24, 2012, 12:44:32 PM

how about student loans?

Up here in canada they are low interest and very resonable pay back terms, i have been paying mine back @ 131$ a month for the last 8 years. I have like 6 years left, no point paying it off quicker, its under 2.5% interest rate.

OcoeeG · January 26, 2012, 02:48:00 PM

I am looking to do the same thing come June. I do not have the land yet and will have a bit more in savings than you but I plan on buying a sawmill and milling the wood I need to build a simple cabin. Initially I could be potentially living on the land without utilities so I have been putting lots of brainpower into thinking of solutions to similar problems, water, power and food storage.

One think I have come up with is a way to heat hot water for free. Google the ZODI Outback Gear Fire Coil Water Heater. I do not know how to post pics here, but let me explain it then you can google it and see a picture for yourself. It is basically a 2 bucket gravity feed system with a copper coil in the middle. The copper coil sits in a nice hot fire and the water flows from the top bucket through the coils in the fire into the bottom bucket, getting heated along the way. This system could be made easily from stuff you can buy at the hardware store. The problem is you need a campfire, but there is nothing wrong with making a nice little fire to keep the chill off at night and heat up some water for a shower, dishes or washing clothes at night. Seems like a cheap to build and free to run solution to hot water. Or you can buy one of those big ass gas burners like you would use to do a fish fry, but those eat up the propane. Free is better in my book.

Frr water you can buy a few cheap plastic 55 gal barrels and set up a rainwater collection system off your cabin. Look on Craigslist, they can be had for $30 or $40 all day. Get a few and get some free used gutters off of craigslist or freecycle and you are in business. I wouldn't drink it but for washing, yourself dishes and clothes would be more than fine. That is all I got for now, good luck. Keep us informed on how it goes.

January 26, 2012, 03:27:04 PM

Quote from: rocking23nf on January 24, 2012, 12:44:32 PM
how about student loans?

Up here in canada they are low interest and very resonable pay back terms, i have been paying mine back @ 131$ a month for the last 8 years. I have like 6 years left, no point paying it off quicker, its under 2.5% interest rate.

Student loans are like any other loan: a loan.

I take it from his posts that he'd rather not have loans and credit to try to pay back while looking for work etc....

trish2 · January 28, 2012, 02:04:13 AM

Since you will be 'moving' in the summer time, there may be some friends ( or friends of friends) who would be willing to do either:
1. Help you for a few hours a day building your cabin in exchange for you letting them camp on your property. Any lake close by for fishing?
OR
2. Pay you a small daily fee to camp on your property. The only problem might be insurance in case they were injured...you'd have to talk to your insurance agent about this.

Barter has been around for a long time....might be something to think about to help you finish your cabin.

Just a thought.....

John Raabe · January 28, 2012, 08:52:58 AM

Your walls can probably be insulated with a blown-in material (cellulose or fiberglass) that feeds through a hole drilled at the top of each stud bay. These holes can be patched rather quickly later. You will probably want to borrow or buy a generator for your construction period.

You might want to put together a plan to make the place livable and work out the materials and tools needed to do that. Rank them in importance. Then put together another list of friends, family and others who can be called on to help you do this. You will be going into debt for your house - as this is how most houses are built - but this debt does not have to be borrowed money. It can be promised reciprocal labor.

Oil lamps are fine for basic light but expensive per unit of light (lumen).