Al and Robins 20x30 1 1/2 near Lake Eufaula, OK

[ajbremer]

Sunday Afternoon - February 12th, 2012 Oklahoma

I've been out there working all day so far. I've been leveling and plumbing the walls. I
put small blocks up at top plates and did the string line thing to see how straight the
walls were. They were all pretty good. I used the cleated board with a kicker method
to move one long wall into place and then braced it. One gable end wall was really hard
to move so I used one of my I-Joist, a chain, and a come-along to pull it into place and then
I braced it. I put the I-Joist in between the door openings. Here's a picture of that:



I also started to do my sheathing, here's pics of that:

[ajbremer]

Monday Morning - February 13th, 2012 Oklahoma

I thought I would share these videos with you. They show me straightening the walls
and using a string-line at the top with little standoff blocks. They also show the beginnings
of the sheathing process. I used 19/32 Norbord and ran it down to the lip of the angle-iron
pier foundation unit. It worked out pretty good, that angle iron lip sticks out the thickness
of the sheathing so I just have to lift the sheets up while they catch on the lip that holds
them.

In the middle video I mention that I'm going to start the sheathing process by putting
one sheet at each corner but instead of doing that I'm just going around the whole thing
all at once. I also need to mention that there are still one or two headers that I have to
put in, I will do that before I cover them up with the sheets.

In this first early floor joist picture, before the videos, you can see what I mean about the angle iron that
holds the rim joists up and sticks out enough for the sheathing to catch:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FE1z17F4zMs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iofK-7vmBg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amVaGf3im98

[NM_Shooter]

I'm noticing that your top plates are splicing together at points that are not directly above a stud.  I've always avoided doing that, but I don't know what code says about that sort of thing.  Don / Peg,  any comments?

[MountainDon]

IRC2009
R602.3.2 Top plate.
Wood stud walls shall be capped with a double top plate installed to provide overlapping at corners and intersections with bearing partitions. End joints in top plates shall be offset at least 24 inches (610 mm). Joints in plates need not occur over studs. Plates shall be not less than 2-inches (51 mm) nominal thickness and have a width at least equal to the width of the studs.

Exception: A single top plate may be installed in stud walls, provided the plate is adequately tied at joints, corners and intersecting walls by a minimum 3-inch by 6-inch by a 0.036-inch-thick (76 mm by 152 mm by 0.914 mm) galvanized steel plate that is nailed to each wall or segment of wall by six 8d nails on each side, provided the rafters or joists are centered over the studs with a tolerance of no more than 1 inch (25 mm). The top plate may be omitted over lintels that are adequately tied to adjacent wall sections with steel plates or equivalent as previously described.

[ajbremer]

Wednesday Morning - February 15th, 2012 Oklahoma

I put up a sheet or so near the doorway yesterday. Here's a view from
the top of our motor home (before I put up the sheet or so):



I posed for a view from the front (there always seems to be a cat in the pictures):

[ajbremer]

Wednesday Night - February 15th, 2012 Oklahoma

I put a couple more sheets up after work today:

[ajbremer]

Saturday Morning - February 18th, 2012 Oklahoma

I no longer care if I have a cathedral ceiling or not. I would like to have my roof
change pitch from 12:12 to 6:12 like so. What would be the easiest way to do
this, site built trusses, or ridge board? Would I just use double rafters at the
point where the pitch change is if I use the ridge board method? The ridge board
seems like the easiest and most common method.

Here is a pic of what I want:

(Pic coming soon)

[Don_P]

That 6/12 roof could be stick framed or trussed for a level ceiling or use a ridgebeam if the ceiling is... or might ever need to be a cathedral. The same applies to the front roof. To leave the most options a ridgebeam would be used, and at some point someone is going to want to cathedral those ceilings. If you can trace support down to the footings for a post at each end and one at the pitch change I would frame it with ridgebeams.

Start studying sidewall and kickout flashing details  .

[MWAndrus]

This is a stud plan that I had drawn up for one of the house ideas that we had been tossing around. The ceiling in the living room isn't a cathedral, but it is raised a little to give the room a bit more height. We did this to make it cheaper to insulate and easier to drywall.

[astidham]

I have a friend building a house here in oklahoma right now that looks almost identical.
here it is,

[ajbremer]

Thanks astidham, that's an awesome looking house. It looks like he extended out a little bit
for a future porch. Did he use the ridge beam method? You should get him to post his stuff
here on countryplans.

[astidham]

Thanks astidham, that's an awesome looking house. It looks like he extended out a little bit
for a future porch. Did he use the ridge beam method? You should get him to post his stuff
here on countryplans.

yes he did use a ridge beam.

also he is a fellow spirit brother too!

[ajbremer]

Tuesday Morning - February 21st, 2012 Oklahoma

Finished the main interior wall.

[ajbremer]

Wednesday Night - February 22nd, 2012 Oklahoma

Today I had wood delivered. 20 sheets of 7/16 4x8, some 2x4x10's, some 2x6x10's
and one really long board that I'm going to use for my ridge board. It's a 2x8x32 feet long board
and it cost me $47.00 (they had it in stock). I'm trying to manage the 32' board here in these first pics:





And I've been continuing the sheathing process:





Here is the truck that delivered the wood, it had a huge boom on it:

[ajbremer]

I have a ridge board question.

I'm planning on using a 2x8x30' ridge board and 2x6 rafters. I want to support my ridge board real soon
but I haven't investigated how to figure the height to put it. Since the roof pitch is 12:12 then the 20'
buildings center will be 10 feet from edge so I put my ridge board in the exact middle of the width. Since
it's a 45 degree angle, the width is the same as the height - 10 feet. But what about the birds mouth
cuts and 45 degree angle cuts up on the rafters, where do they fit in the calculation? How high form the floor
or wall cap plate do I put the very top of the ridge board?

I have that framing book, I have my plans, and I know I can also search countryplans but I thought I would shoot this question out first.

[Don_P]

I'm sort of lost with the recent changes, can you post drawings of what you are planning?
How are you insulating the roof?
How are you tieing the rafters together?

[ajbremer]

Hi Don_P,

Thanks for helping Don. I plan to insulate the roof using collar ties (no open cathedral). The rafters
are tied together with collar ties and rafter ties where there is no loft. I was thinking that it's the same method that I've
seen on many builds here at countryplans where they use a ridge beam. Am I thinking correctly?

I can't do drawings here from work but I will try later if need be.

[MountainDon]

I'm planning on using a 2x8x30' ridge board and 2x6 rafters.

............ where they use a ridge beam.

I'm confused too, the above quotes are not the same thing. A 2x8 will be a ridge board. A ridge board does nothing structurally; just a thing to nail the rafter tips to and keep the rafters pairs positioned until the roof sheathing is nailed in place.  A ridge beam is something much more substantial and actually carries roof load down the the ground via columns. There are no columns in the design the way it is presented here.

Rafters (with ridge board) require rafter ties someplace in the lower third of the rafter triangle to properly restrain roof loads from bearing excessive outward horizontal force on the stub walls that extend above the loft floors.

If insulation is to be placed in any part of the sloped roof 2x6 rafters are, IMO, totally unsuitable. A 2x6 may be able to carry the structural load, but they are not the answer for every situation. There is not nearly enough insulation space available to keep out the summer sun, or to keep the heat inside in winter, unless you were to fill the vois completely with spray in place foam.

[ajbremer]

Thanks again Don,

I agree with you about the insulation, I'll be using something bigger than 2x6's for the
rafters. Also, I meant 'Ridge board' and not ridge beam - they'll be no ridge beam.

[Mike 870]

The ridge board height is:  (total rise) + (height of plum line from the birds mouth seat cut to the top of the rafter) - (depth of ceiling joist) - (thickness of the floor or temporary sheathing panles) - (depth of ridgeboard)

* your roof will have 2 pitches,  when you go to do the wall height of the side of the house that has the low pitch, it's like a shed dormer, you will have to back into the wall height, because the ridge height is already set.  Does this make sense? In essense, you set it up so that the wall height plus the other measurements comes out at the same ridge height that you already have.

**if you are not resting the ridge supports on a ceiling joist and temporary braceing then you don't have to account for that.


You've got to think this through before you start cutting, try both rafters before you cut the rest too, the low pitch section and the 12/12 section.

Hope this helps, if not, one of the PROs on here can probably sort it out for you!

[Don_P]

These are a couple of mine;
http://www.timbertoolbox.com/Calcs/ridgehgtclc.htm
http://www.timbertoolbox.com/Calcs/raftercalc.htm

[ajbremer]

Friday Morning - February 24th, 2012 Oklahoma

Thank you all for trying to help me with my roof, to understand how to do it and what I need to do.

I guess I'm pretty confused about it all myself and I'm having trouble trying to understand how to
do all the different cuts. This roof stuff seems like the most difficult stuff for me to understand so far.
I've been reading the framming book and trying to grasp how to do all the different rafter cuts like the
birds mouth, the overhang. and the angled rafter cut, and I'll have to reread it all again a few times.

To top it all off, I'm not sure if I can have my roof pitch change the way I want to because I think I see
now that I should have used taller 2x6's where the 6:12 pitch would be so that the higher walls would be
strong. To change my pitch to a shallower one so that I can have more loft head room was the main plan
but now I see that if I was to build a wall, let's say another 4 feet high, ontop of the already 10 foot wall,
it would be very week with nothing supporting it. I guess the gable end wall would support it at one end but
the other end wouldn't have nothing there for support. Does any one know if I can make a wall strong enough
up there?

I don't care about having a cathedral ceiling at this point so I would have collar ties throughout the whole build and they would act as my ceiling. And I don't mind at all about putting rafter ties/ceiling joists at every four foot where the lofts wouldn't be.

I may just forget about all the fancy stuff and simply do the full 12:12 pitch with no dormers but if I can grasp this stuff and it's not too expensive, I sure would like that pitch change to happen.

A frammer friend of mine is going to come out Saturday and I'm sure he'll help me to understand more about what I should and could do. I know one thing for sure, I'm going to do the roof myself and not hire anyone to do it. I figure that I've gone this far and was able to understand things enough to do what's been done so I'll be able to do the roof. It's just that it's getting frustrating at this point because there's a lot at stake with the roof and I want it done right (even though I'm doing it).

Right now I feel a little bit like this with the roof:  , but I'll over come it with help (I sure need all I can get) - thank you every one!

[Don_P]

To top it all off, I'm not sure if I can have my roof pitch change the way I want to because I think I see
now that I should have used taller 2x6's where the 6:12 pitch would be so that the higher walls would be
strong. To change my pitch to a shallower one so that I can have more loft head room was the main plan
but now I see that if I was to build a wall, let's say another 4 feet high, ontop of the already 10 foot wall,
it would be very week with nothing supporting it. I guess the gable end wall would support it at one end but
the other end wouldn't have nothing there for support. Does any one know if I can make a wall strong enough
up there?

the section where you have the lower pitched full second floor should be platform framed... ~8' main floor walls with top plates, the second floor sits on that, the second floor gets subfloor and then the second floor ~8' walls are built. The shallow pitched roof sits atop the second floor walls. You can cut down the tall walls in the 2 story section, salvage and reapply the plates and go again. If you plan on the fly, count on blowing through time and wood. On the current job I gutted and redid the upper floor 3 times. You can either erase pencil on paper or wood and nails in the field. Job security, but it isn't cheap, fun or pretty. That's why I like being a carpenter, we get to burn mistakes 

please draw the second floor plan, including the stairs when you have some time.

[MountainDon]

I heartily second the thought about drawings. The only part of our cabin where things didn't go as well as they should have was where I left the drawings "till later". Later never came.

[ajbremer]

Saturday Morning - February 25th, 2012 Oklahoma

Yes, I got the whole weekend to work on our build! I took the morning off of work
so I can meet a framer friend of mine and discuss things, I'm pretty excited about that.

Ya know, when I say 'our build', it's almost like I think it should be 'my build' but I
look back at my thread and see how you guys have helped me with the troubles that
I've had, the things I didn't understand because of this being my first build, I think I would
have made many more disastrous mistakes if I hadn't done what many of you have suggested. I'm
so appreciative of all your answers, comments, and suggestions. That is why sometimes I see
no problem in calling this 'our build' or maybe even 'the countryplan build'.

Anyway, Thank you Don_P and MountainDon for those last few pieces of advise. I'm beginning to
see some things a little clearer.

I first got the idea of making the higher loft walls that create the lower pitch roof by seeing
what Don Lundgren did with his 24 x 30 build. His countryplan thread
is here: http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=7649.0

Don Lundgren has the 10.5:12 pitch but goes to a 6:12 pitch on only one side at one end of
the long wall, basically a shed dormer. He made sure that his wall was only 8 feet high at that
one particular end. From what I see, all other walls and the gable end walls are 10 feet. So all I
would need to do is to tear down 2 sections of my 10 foot walls to the 8 foot height. Ya, I'll loose
a few 2x6's but I don't consider it a major error at this point. It's probably something that can
be done in 3 or 4 hours I'd imagine.

I will platform frame this end section as Don_P suggests but I don't want to put a full story up
there, I just want about 4 feet of more head room in the loft where I can also use the same
ridge board throughout the whole build. It would basically be the same method as Don Ludgren
used but on both sides.

Here is a 3D view of my second floor from my Chief Architect software:



Here's the loft floor plan:



Now I would like to show some pics of Don Ludgren's place because these pictures show just what I would like to do, the same as Don here did but on both sides. This first picture shows where he took the 10' wall down to the 8' wall:



This next picture, an outside shot, shows how he framed it:


Here's another shot from the outside:


Here's a good shot that shows the sheathed cheek wall:


Here's an inside shot showing the 2 different roof pitches:


If you look to the right of this next picture, you can see a good inside view of the intersection
of the two pitches:


Here it is pretty well sheathed:


And here's the end result: