9/11 Anniversary

[Sassy]

Secrecy Surrounds a Bush Brothers Role in 911

[jraabe]

Glenn and Sassy:

I hope you understand that I don't think you are crazy and I'm very glad you are pointing us to important information you find available. I don't think I am closing my eyes or hiding from the "truth" here. I am trying to lay down a test of sorts. Certainly just because there are convincing theories or alternative realities to the "official story" doesn't mean they are true, does it?

Hitler had a convincing theory about the Jews in Europe in the 1930's - a lot of people believed that theory and were able to produce convincing evidence to support it. That didn't make it true. The truth did come out, of course and the deception was clearly admitted to by many of those who participated in it.

Of course, there are Holocaust deniers who still say it didn't happen, but there is a huge body of documented history that they also must deny and most intelligent people trust the history more than the "alternative reality theory".

My test is similar - that the people who have done this (the engineering of the staged 9-11 attack) cannot stay forever silent. They will be forced by their human nature to confess and come out of the closet.

That has not yet happened. And I believe it must if such a thing did in fact happen.

Until that admission starts to happen I will not invest my limited emotional energy in "possible alternative realities". I have done enough personal experimentation in my youth to know how easily convincing alternative realities can be.  8-) I have also learned that I have an emotional inclination to want to believe exciting apocalyptic theories. They are much more attractive than the boring day to day frustrations of the "work-a-day reality". But excitement doesn't equal truth.

[highlight]People are certainly willing to listen.[/highlight] It would be exceedingly easy for one of the people who placed the charges in the twin towers to come forward on the Internet with a confession and traceable information on brands of materials, suppliers, and other evidence. They could do this anonymously, like "Deep Throat" did in the 1970's. It is far easier to come out of the closet today than it was in the Nixon era.

[glenn-k]

I think the perpetrators of the plot are perfectly capable of taking the how's to their grave with them.  They have no conscience.

A duck doesn't ever tell you it is a duck, but the evidence that it is a duck is overwhelming.

One piece at a time the 9/11 evidence builds up.  The whos, or whys don't have to be there.  The hows are there.  The official story is a physical impossibility.  Something else had to happen.  Buying the official story won't give you the answers.  I knew it wasn't true the day it happened.  I am a pilot.  The manuevers pulled on that day were impossible for student pilots or pilots with little skill.  The deviations from flight plan without military interception were impossible without assistance from the inside.  I have been intercepted in the middle of nowhere when I strayed just a little bit close to a restricted area.  Standard operating procedures of ATC would have prevented the entire operation if they were allowed to proceed as normal.

Check out the cutting charges. http://www.rense.com/general63/cutt.htm

Pictures of columns that were cut in the core - typical of thermite cutting - takes seconds.



Check out the stories of molten metal.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2006/240406thermiteidentified.htm

Please look and attempt to prove that these facts are incorrect.  If you can show that to me, I might even buy the official story.  I don't have all the answers, but I do have the questions that need answers.

[Sassy]

John, I understand your reluctance to believe that our gov't could have had anything to do with 911 - believe me, Glenn & I had some lively debates when he first started reading me articles that questioned the official story.  So, of course, I set out to prove him wrong...   ... unfortunately, the more I researched, the harder it was to not question the official story.  I still read articles on both sides - one of the sites I read is World Net Daily - they are still, on the whole, very pro-Bush, pro-Iraq war, even supporting bombing Iran - & this is mostly a "Christian" website - to me, I am dismayed - I listen to Christian radio & there are some talk shows that totally support the "official story" & won't even give airtime to those who call in & question...  but I also read other sites that are "Christian" also have lots of questions that the gov't is refusing to answer.

Why won't they answer?  I have the 911 Commission report - on page 396 or something they have written about the plans in 1997 to go into Iraq so that we could control the gov't, topple Saddam Hussein & get control of the oil, a pipeline through Afganistan etc - they have the pipeline through Afganistan now... ya gotta "follow the money, follow the power" - if you've ever seen the movie "The Corporation" you see that it is considered an "individual" which in some ways places it out of reach of a lot of the repercussions of their actions - the bottom line is "making money".  If profit is the ultimate goal - there are no morals to that - by law, the corporation must do everything possible to make money for it's shareholders ie Enron, lots of S&L's, banks.  Everytime a bank or S&L fails due to poor, risky investments trying to make profits, the good 'ole gov't - ie US taxpayer picks up the bill - that is one of the ways that the World Bank can finance all the risky investments around the world - they loan money to the gov't - oftentimes the common citizen never sees any benefit, but the global industries get their share - when things don't pan out & the venture fails, the World Bank still gets their money, who foots the bill?  Guess again - the good 'ole US taxpayer along with other countries who also tax their citizens to provide funding for the World Bank (WB).  There is no incentive to be cautious - the riskier, the better, because oftentimes the speculation will make lots of money - but the WB bankrupts the countries it is supposedly helping by charging so much interest - the banks want the interest - that is income, so they keep rolling over the debt, until it breaks the back of the usually 3rd world country & the global "elites" can buy out the infrastructure & gain control.  

Our Federal Reserve is a perfect example...  :-/  It is a private central bank printing up money "out of thin air" to loan to the gov't at a certain interest rate... the Federal Reserve, who originally printed the money without any backing, considers the loan to be an "asset" even though the money it loans is purely "fiat" - that's the way banks operate now throughout the world.  We don't even have "fractional" banking anymore - debt is considered assets...    The Federal Reserve has never been audited since it begun in 1913 - the same year that the Internal Revenue Service came into being - & get this, your taxes don't go to pay for the infrastructure of our country - it goes to pay the Federal Reserve debt!!!  Watch Aaron Russo's movie From Freedom to Fascism - its on Google, so is Terror Storm by Alex Jones.  

Remember that Donald Rumsfield announced that the Pentagon could not account for $2.3  billion on 9/10/2001!  This happens every year to the tune of at least a trillion $$$ or more - if you look at the records of the GAO - you can see this documented.

Here is a link I previously posted about high gov't officials - lots are military officers, who question the official story.   http://patriotsquestion911.com/  I also posted a link to a video that shows the 911 families before the 911 Commission & also speaking on their own -  What I Want You to Know About 9/11 - there are lots of links to various articles & videos.  I posted the link on page one of this topic.  

I agree, that it is hard to imagine that humankind can slump so low - but in a world without a "bottom line" without "truth" - all is relative, to each his own, you make your own reality, decide what to believe, what is right & wrong in your own mind.  If you've ever seen a 2 yr old throw a tantrum because he didn't get his own way, you understand that man is totally self-centered right from the start - some will say "survival of the fittest" but then that brings up a whole other can of worms & also debunks the idea that man is basically "good" - so what is it?  Read about Margaret Sanger (the founder of Planned Parenthood) & the original goals of her group -- euthanasia--getting rid of the less desireables.  Read the now unclassified records of Operation Northwoods that President John F Kennedy nixed - he also had plans to put us on the gold standard - within a couple months, he was dead!  

I probably sound totally jaded with the world - but I'm not - I have a hope that the world cannot destroy - that's what puts joy in my heart & direction in my life.    That's what keeps me searching for the truth, no matter how ugly it may be.  This world is so beautiful, so complex, man is wonderfully made, everything rests on such  an intricate balance.  Sassy

[jraabe]

Does anyone know of a follow-up interview with a professional building demolition firm about what it would take to bring down the twin towers to match the speed at which they came down? Such a study would seem obvious to me as it would shed a great deal of light on the truth or falsehood of the theory.

I would really like to know... who would you call to do such a job. Have them do a bid. How many people would be involved, what types of explosives, where would they be placed, how would you keep it secret from the building occupants, etc.

Put a professional team on the project and see what they come up with. I expect it would be a more expensive and complex job than the mere flying of planes into the sides of the towers.

[Amanda_931]

John wrote:

Does anyone know of a follow-up interview with a professional building demolition firm about what it would take to bring down the twin towers to match the speed at which they came down?
.........

I expect it would be a more expensive and complex job than the mere flying of planes into the sides of the towers.

In a way that's kind of apples and oranges.  Getting it just right--just once--without planning might be quite different from being able to successfully predict what's going to happen.  Let alone replicate it.  Forensic engineering is a bit different.  If there is such a phrase.

I've got a book--somewhere-- that seems pretty convincing to a non-engineer about the structural properties of the building, how it would fall, and how the patterns there look much more like a take-down instead of a blow from outside.

[lodestar]

At the very least there was collusion...how did the passports survive?  Why did the towers implode?  Why did a building not involved implode?  Why was all of NORAD on a training mission that day?  Why were the Air Traffic Controller's tapes confiscated?  Where are the black boxes?  Why did some of the 19 show up alive in Europe?  How did they have all 19 names almost immediately?

[glenn-k]

It helps if they have an inside team so they are coached properly.  They used the same people thay used on the Murrah building for a lot of the reporting etc.  Same cleanup crew to get rid of the evidence I believe.

The contractor who is reported to have been the first on the WTC collapse scene to cart away the rubble that remains is a company that specializes in the scientific demolition of large buildings, Controlled Demolition, Inc. (CDI) of Baltimore, headed by Mark Loizeaux.

CDI is the same contractor that demolished and hauled away the shell of the bombed Oklahoma City Murrah building, actions that prevented independent investigators from pursuing evidence on leads suggesting that there were bombs set off inside the building.

In February 2000, a federal grand jury indicted Mark Loizeaux, Douglas Loizeaux and Controlled Demolition, Inc. on charges of falsely reporting campaign contributions by asking family members and CDI employees to donate to the campaign of Rep. Elijah E. Cummings (D-Md.).

The Baltimore Sun reported that the illegal contributions allegedly occurred between 1996 and 1998. The Loizeaux brothers and CDI were acquitted in Sept ember 2000. Cleaning up the estimated 1.2 million tons of rubble will reportedly cost $7 billion and take up to a year.

Kevin Ryan worked for a division of Underwriters labs.  He told the truth - and lost his job for it if I remember correctly.  He said there was no way the airplane fuel fire was hot enough to cause problems.

http://www.911review.com/coverup/wtcinquiry.html

Another expert testified that it was demolition then under threat of losing his funding, suddenly changed his story to match the official one.

I found that story on this site also, but was already aware of it. He is an expert and was obviously leaned on to change the story.

http://www.911review.com/coverup/romero.html

[glenn-k]

Ten reasons hijackers are fake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP-Uh7w-mw8&mode=related&search=

Above professor James Fetzer. http://www.d.umn.edu/~jfetzer/

Great to see people with open minds here and still others who want to understand (or are not sure they want to understand).  :-/

Here is another demo expert stating his professional opinion regarding building 7.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgoSOQ2xrbI&mode=related&search=

Evidence of advanced fusion devices at the WTC
http://www.saunalahti.fi/wtc2001/evidence.htm

[jraabe]

"If we don't keep looking for answers we'll never find the truth."

Thanks, Glenn (and others).

The trouble I am having with all this is a philosophical or spiritual one. In one of your links an author makes a good case for the use of fusion explosives (H-bombs!) in bringing down the towers and pulverizing them so completely. To believe this is true you must also believe that the U.S. Military and Government leaders at the very highest levels were coordinating this.

I ask again, "what is the motivation" for such an enormous effort? What could I hope to gain (assuming I am one of the plotters)?

My philosophical/spiritual problem is that there is no motivation great enough to do this. Neither greed, nor power would be sufficient to motivate any normal American. To claim that all the (hundreds?) of people involved in such an effort are merely mental psychopaths is also unacceptable.

My only conclusion is that if these claims are true, then powerful non-rational "forces of evil" (fill in your own image from your religious framework) are at work here. Destruction on such an enormous scale has to be the classic "battle of the gods" fighting for the souls and spiritual future of humanity. We can easily then throw in the JFK, MLK and John Lennon assassinations as earlier expressions of the power of this evil.

If I accept this (on faith - since that would have to be the platform), then I must also jettison my whole liberal, humanistic, rationalistic framework of reality. And that is a bigger problem involving my trust and hope for humanity.

Such a shift pushes me way beyond my basic distrust of big government and big business yet faith in democracy and entrepreneurial freedom. It would mean I must also buy into the apocalyptic "final days" image of the world that is now motivating religious extremism in many parts of the world. In such a belief structure there is no "middle ground", no "working things out", no "can't we all just get along" - we are in a life and death battle.

To my surprise, I find I would have to share George Bush's black and white view of the "evil doers" and fight to kill as many as possible. Total victory can be the only outcome.

Of course, once I abandon a humanistic viewpoint and join the absolutists or ideologues, it doesn't much matter which side I'm on. I can see Al Qaeda as the devil and GWB as an avenging angel or visa versa. Black can flip to white and the images are the same, one is just a negative of the other.

[Amanda_931]

In order to believe this one gets to buy into our government or the power behind the government as the government of 1984.  

Complete with managed news, perpetual warfare (with unpredictable shifts in the enemy--all previous news edited to make us believe that we have always been at war with this one), with attacks probably from our own government to keep us scared and willing to believe, to participate in the minute (was it a quarter of an hour or ten minutes?) of hate every day, to sort of learn how to work around this, but by doing so, really being a part of the system.

Do we think that government by Haliburton--or some other company or set of companies--would go to these lengths?

Or that some mad person in the government--or just outside of government (e.g., Carlyle or Haliburton)--mostly did this on his (or her) own?

If you think that that person might be the 43d president of the U.S. you might point to the man as a dry drunk, as someone determined to avenge/outshine his father's "failure" in Iraq, not to mention the 2000 election and so on and on and on.  I certainly have acquaintances who believe that the President, acting as President or Commander in Chief, can do no wrong.  Almost in the same way that a priest saying mass is the instrument of God.  The question is are there enough people like that in the mid to upper levels of government to carry this out.

I really do recommend reading 1984.  Or perhaps even better getting it in audio.

I have (although it's loaned out and may never ever come back) it paired with Animal Farm and particularly like the 1984 by Frank Muller.  It seems to be cassette only..

http://www.stjohnfisherforum.org/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=AUD3600

or here--for less.  Although not too long ago I found it at a not-quite local bookstore under their brand name:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/1402558228/ref=dp_olp_0/002-4170165-9831267?ie=UTF8&condition=all

[Sassy]

Take a look on Google videos for "Bush Family Fortunes" - lots of good info...

also go to this link Reuters: Unexplained surge in financial transactions just before 911

[Sassy]

9/11 Cover-up Two-Page SummaryVerifiable Media Reports on 9/11

[glenn-k]

I've got part of what you wanted to see, John.

Boston Air Traffic Controller Says 9/11 An Inside Job

A former Boston Center air traffic controller has gone public on his assertion that 9/11 was an inside job and that Donald Rumsfeld and the Pentagon tracked three of the four flights from the point of their hijacking to hitting their targets. In an astounding telephone interview, Robin Hordon claims air traffic controllers have been ignored or silenced to protect the true perpetrators of 9/11.

A recording of the phone conversation was posted on Google video late yesterday by the Pilots For 9/11 Truth organization.

He said the same thing that I said because of my flight experience.

He highlighted the fact that only an emergency handling of aircraft protocol change on that day could have interrupted standard operating procedure and hijacking protocol. Hordon said it was unbelievable how far American Airlines Flight 11 was allowed to go off course without the appropriate action being taken on behalf of flight controllers.

"Further information indicates later the NORAD radars had it tracked....the bottom line of the story is that all of those aircraft were always tracked all the time by the FAA air traffic control centers," said Hordon, pointing out that information showing air traffic controllers tried insistently to alert military command structures is being locked down because it points to finger of responsibility to Donald Rumsfeld and the Pentagon, who were also tracking all the aircraft from the point of hijacking to the impact on their targets.

This is the reason why, as Hordon stated, that we don't have complete access to flight data recorders and FAA tapes, which in the case of a conversation between six New York Air Route Traffic Control Center controllers was ordered to be shredded, because if studies of that evidence were undertaken it would become very clear as to who was really behind the attack.

"What they did is they cherry picked transmissions, communications and statements made all on these four flights that were able to paint and write a story that the public would look at and so ooh wow, this really happened - but it wasn't factual, it was a story and it tell not tell anything other than what the high perps wanted the public to hear - they cherry picked this information," said Hordon.

Hordon ended by saying that only with the testimony from the dozens of flight controllers who have been silenced or ignored would the true story about who carried out 9/11 begin to emerge.

[jraabe]

Hey, thanks for posting that Glenn:

That's the kind of thing that could start to unravel this (that and a congress with the guts to do a full inquiry  8-))

I've been out of power since yesterday afternoon in the big blow here. Locally there are 1,000,000 utility customers in the dark tonight. 700,000 of them in my electric utility alone - that is some kind of record and they are saying up it could be up to a week before all the folks get hooked back up.  

I had to chainsaw my way down the driveway this morning... but no real damage otherwise. I also have my new generator running and even hooked up the Cooperative Design International Headquarters and have the computer and DSL running. Even got [highlight]plan orders [/highlight]out today!!

More later. I smell like gasoline. Everyone is suggesting it might be time for a shower. Wait, that hot water heater is electric.  :-?

[glenn-k]

Sorry , John -- I don't understand power outages-- I'm off grid.  

Good job on getting your stuff up and running.  After that invigorating cold shower you may have to chase Miriam around the house to get your temperature back up to normal. :-/

(Actually I'm kicking my batteries up a bit with the generator for the party tomorrow, but still not out of power.)

[Amanda_931]

Heat hot water on some kind of propane (NG) heater, from there to a 5-gallon bucket, start with pouring water on you from a bowl or dipper, rinse at the end by pouring the rest of the bucket over your head.

That's the shower I have down at the barn.



That's why I don't shower there very often.

[jraabe]

Up and running again this morning. Still making our own electrons.

Yea, we're kinda electrical wimps out here - stove and hot water heater are electric. Thanks for the shower tip Amanda.

Glenn has turned off-grid into a gentlemanly lifestyle whereas here everyone is pretending they're living on the frontier.

Checked on several neighbors and am slowly filling up my freezer with packages I don't recognize. Going to get another generator going today for an older couple with health issues.

The next thing is to find a gas station that can pump gas. Most are shut down.

[Amanda_931]

Most of the gas stations receive fuel by gravity--from the truck.

If you can open their incoming fuel stopper, you could bring it out with a long-handled dipper--about a cup at a time!

May you--and the whole island--come back on-grid power soon!

[glenn-k]

Information starts to leak on the Murrah building - as I stated before - McVeigh was a scapegoat likely assisting in a gov elite/NWO scheme.

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_5271117

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2007/220207fbiagent.htm

A runner up the the fine .gov showmanship displayed in the WTC demolition on 9/11

Note that I base my statement on the fact that criminals are generally more honest than politicians.

[Amanda_931]

I always figured that was--or could be--why prosecutors were so anxious for him to get the death penalty.

[glenn-k]

More showing up on that one every week it seems.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWwrEEP8EBk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMBvX3P8IjE

Attorney: Sealed Documents Indicate OKC Inside Job
FBI, defense team files identify government informants directing McVeigh

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/february2007/230207insidejob.htm

[glenn-k]

Video expose of the CIA, drugs, the war on terror, 9/11 by Michael Ruppert, former LAPD officer -later PNW resident.  I have read his stuff for years.  His girlfriend was CIA unknown to him as I recall - he wouldn't go crooked and started the fight with them.

He has been shot at, threatened with death - had his Ashland, Oregon offices and computers destroyed and is now trying to drop his fight like a hot potato, swearing he will never do investigative journalism again.  He went to Venezuela trying to get away from them (the spooks) but while there he somehow managed to end up very near death - a possible victim of poisoning.  You can run but you can't hide.  He is currently in Canada penniless and recovering.  Currently trying to archive his work for others to build on.

It is a shame what happens to people who try to bring out the truth.  The very reason why info on the truth about 9/11 is so hard to find and when someone manages to get part of it out they are either killed or regarded as kooks.

Here is a link to his video.  http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8797525979024486145&hl=en  You can download the Google video -full of info and copies of actual documents are presented -not super quality video-wise but very informative - From his University of Portland Seminar.

Hopefully some will take the time to view the work he feels strong enough about to die for.

Here is his dying website.  http://www.copvcia.com/index.html
COPVCIA

and here - http://www.fromthewilderness.com/  Read the legal notice and message from him on the second site to see where he is at now.  They are in the process of taking him out.

...or simply close your eyes , look the other way and pretend it isn't happening.  God Bless America.

[Amanda_931]

If you tend to think that God wants peace and justice for all, you might want God to Bless America!

But would Rush Limbaugh be happy with the idea?

[glenn-k]

I think I may have been being a bit sarcastic there, Amanda. :-?  Rush can be happy with nearly anything if he gets the right prescriptions.

Seems if religious people go to Iraq and bomb and shoot other religious people in Iraq indiscriminately as is being done - I am speaking of the same generic religion - not necessarily including Muslims, -- they are bound to get some of their own --- they pray to the same God --   Which one is God going to side with -- the one who needs the oil and power worse? or the one it is being taken from.  I guess they won't worry about it now and just do the best they can when He sorts it out in the future if He cares.  It is estimated that over 600,000 (old figure from memory) innocent citizens, men, women and children, have been killed by our meddling and sanctions.  

My flag waving God Bless America was a mockery of the unthinking masses who believe we have a noble cause.  'Scuse me while I run out and fill up the SUV.  Yeah - We have one, and I have trucks and equipment -- but I was always more into business negotiations than killing innocent people to get what I want.

The point is that business negotiations don't put massive amounts of money into the pockets of the elite.  Business negotiations don't strengthen the war machine and corporate profits like a good killing war does.  Business negotiations don't keep the oil and power away from India, China and Russia who will be competing for the same oil and power we want, and once that is gone then we will have to use up ours.  Keeping the masses scared and uninformed or falsely informed is necessary to keep support for this illegal war.  God Bless America.  Now -- where did my flag go?  I feel like waving it now so I can make myself feel real good.

Funny ?  little video explains part of what I'm talking about.  http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=jox3871zdd