Any one else ever scared of the first nail?

FrankInWI · August 16, 2007, 12:43:07 PM

This is pretty personal...but heck, amongst friends.

When I look at SansPlans determination I am amazed. I am lacking the guts to jump it the pool. I'm great at the dreaming, and the planning, and all the pre-purchase stuff, but then my knees get week. (As backround, I got nice lot near water up north. I'm almost 60 and hope to retire, mostly up there....in a year or two).

I'm kind of stuck here and need a kick in the arse. I am all ready to go on my site to start with the oversized garage with the bonus room. I built and did some remodel at home, and I have all the books, and John's 1 ½ plans. Now I got money in my account, but I am paralyzed with anxiety in the starter block. Never took $25 K of equity and converted it into value somewhere else. I am scared my real procrastination and dreamer tendencies are setting me up for a fall.

I'm so fortunate, I got my fantastic big 17 yr old (quickly accumulating skills) as a hard working son pushing me in the ass to move. With him as my sidekick I should have no fear...but I hesitate and waste time (his # 1 complaint). In the back of my mind is fear of creating the DIY nightmare. Build an unfinished monster approved by no-one, un-inhabitable.

My professional builder weekend neighbor up there was "going to take care of me" and do the fill and concrete work for me. (he built mom's weekend place kitty corner from mine). He just came back with the numbers:

* $7K price tag on the fill for the garage and the 1 ½ cottage, including doing the slab for the garage only (26 X 24).

* $10K for the whole thing, all the fill, and All the slab (about 27 X 50' total).

The fill needed is to come up from 19" in one corner, all the way up to 50" in the diagonal opposite corner 60' or so away. I don't know if he's doing me the favor he made out he was going to, the price seems pretty strong. Course the fill accounts for a lot I guess. Their place was lower and much worse, they needed 60 truck loads. Anyway, now I'm going to bid that out a bit more I guess.
One other option. My son's buddy got into working with local concrete crew this summer. He's almost lived with us and goes up with us a lot. He volunteered. We could order in the fill and then get it compacted, build the forms, and pour the slab ourselves. My grumpy 80 yr old very experienced brother in law up there could even help supervise! Fall is moving in though.....enough skills... and time?

Problem also is my neighbor the professional builder also had me call his favorite lumber yard for his price for everything for the garage w/loft. I did that and didn't get the quote back yet, but if I don't hire him for the fill and slabs, he'll probably tell me to go take a leap regarding using his name / account for the materials for the garage (presuming that will be a good price). He also said to call him in for a one-day rent of him and the machine to lift the big 26' wide bonus room gambrel trusses to the garage roof for install. Guess I'd have to find someone else for that too if I turn down his fill / slab offer.

Sorry to post my nervous mulling around here, just sign me off as:

"Scared to pull the trigger in Wisconsin" )

PS.... I kind of pulled the trigger in one sense....gave the septic guy the go ahead for my $7K at-grade mound. Anyone want to buy a country lot w/septic? Nah....my son(s) would kill me. The one that works anyway....the 14 yr old wanted the just buy a travel trailer to park on the lot option!

C.White · August 16, 2007, 12:57:09 PM

I know how you feel. I have been going through the "prep" stage for so long that I'm afraid of the first part of construction as well. My husband and I have to contract out the house to the dried in stage, and that price quote just came in 2 days ago.

I'm trying to cut corners in every way that I can, and have been scouring craigslist.com to find used doors, kitchen cabinets, a wood stove, bathroom cabinets, lighting fixtures and anything else I shouldn't have to pay full price for.

Now, I've come to find out that the bank, due to the extra stress on acquiring mortgages this week, doesn't want to finance my small house. They want it to be bigger and have more bedrooms to measure against comps. They want me to borrow "more" money, not less, in order to justify lending me the money. They also want the house done in 9 months tops.

The whole purpose of downsizing is to have a smaller house, less debt, and a smaller mortgage. I have to play the game and build the house pretending it has more bedrooms upstairs to have it count the way they see it.
I wish I could drive the first nail myself. It might be in someone's foot.
Christina

August 16, 2007, 09:05:55 PM

Think twice before putting in old doors and windows. I was trying to scrounge used and inexpensive things to build mine and picked up a load of free Andersen wood single pane sashes for free. When it came time to get the thing done and closed in and liveable before winter, I bit the bullet and bought all new windows for about $1600 for 7 vinyl clad Marvin Integrity windows. For about half that you can get vinyl windows at Home Depot. They will insulate better, look better, add more value to the house and install faster. There is a tax credit available which applies to improvements made from January 1, 2006 through December 31, 2007 for qualifying doors, windows and insulation and roofing for 10 percent of the purchase cost. This is a rebate, not a deduction. The Fed will refund to you the calculated amount.

http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=windows_doors.pr_taxcredits
http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=roof_prods.pr_roof_products

Unless you have easy access to a wide selection of used material (I don't where I live) or have already purchased it, the money saved in the short term might not be worth the time wasted searching or the additional money spent heating an inefficient house for years to come. You can save later on interior things like fixtures, cabinets, flooring, paint, wall coverings and furniture.

Tom

tanya · August 16, 2007, 09:14:30 PM

Ya know if you take it slow and easy there is less chance that things will go wrong. Start at the beginning, clearing the land, then frame the slab put those little chairs and rebar down then find some experienced out of work because he drinks or something concrete guy feed him good and make sure there is no booze around until after the pour. Let your kids and thier friend work as crew laborers. You could even try a very small slab yourselves just for the practice session (see if your concrete guy can stay sober that long at least) Now you see I am not talking bad about concrete guys don't get that idea but everyone has issues and some concrete guys still know their stuff but land out of work due to the issues. Just make sure everything is ready for the pour and that the guy is sober when the truck arrives. If all else fails your sons friend probably knows how it should all go and if you have the small practice slab experience you can make it happen. I am not building a slab myself much to scary I am gong withtose little concrete piers things that make life much easier. It's making myself do all that work that scaresme. I get bored very easily.

Jimmy C. · August 17, 2007, 09:10:03 AM

IF I've said it once I've said it a hundred times!
[size=14][highlight]The hardest part is getting past the mental blocks about what you are capable of doing.[/highlight][/size]
I remember the day all the wood for the first floor walls came in.
I got the boards i needed for the first section of wall laid out in front of me, then had something like an "out of body experience."
Thinking, Oh my God! This is it!
After the first wall took shape I felt like an old pro!

August 17, 2007, 11:22:49 AM

I completely agree with going with quality exterior windows and doors. I'm actually only looking for interior doors to salvage.
I built a house years ago with about 50% salvaged materials and mill rough cut lumber in the first part that was about 900 square feet. Years later, we added on and used new materials only. The experience made a lasting impression on me. I want doors and windows that close.

Now, if I can just get past the bank's involvement.
I'm building a primary residence, not a cabin for weekends only. I think that is making a difference in size, efficiency of space and storage. It also needs to have comps that the bank feels secure with unfortunately. They aren't thinking "green" , or "little houses are cool", or "what a great concept...to build only what you need". They are thinking, "can we sell this thing if she defaults on the loan.".
Two different worlds. I understand their way of looking at it, but we sure do disagree.
Christina

FrankInWI · August 17, 2007, 01:47:46 PM

Thanks for the comments. Jimmy C. , you're one of my heros! Thanks for sharing your experience when the lumber came in. I do believe when I lining up the boards and start swing that hammer I'll feel great. After all, I do love to do it....or at least the mini projects so far. Now for that high roof.... oh well, cross that bridge when I get to it.

About used windows and doors. Oh my, stopped at wondrful niece's place they bought. Old farm house, outbuildings a few great acres. They are low on $$ so they bought some ver used windows and a door with the accompanying windows on each side. This stuff is old and not anywhere near energy efficient though. THIS winter already they are going to be sorry. Some even looked single pane! At some point you just can't throw in anything there that looks good, but it's like shooting yourself in the foot for the next 10 years with energy costs.

Damn banks, they tried to cheat me on a loan and I almost went public. They gave me a deal to shut me up and I got the loan I never would have got had they been honest from the start. What do you do when you see your banker and your ex-wife in the middle of the road about to be hit by a semi and a decision has to be made? ....well, you then decide between getting an ice-cream or going for a beer.

ps.........pretty sure I'll contract out the fill myself and do the slab myself. Got two guys going out there for bids now.

tc-vt · August 17, 2007, 06:44:41 PM

I'm interested to hear how you decide to go with getting the slab done. Mine went well doing the work myself (ie. no contracted professional help, just friends helping out) in two stages - a combination footing and stem wall for the first pour (2 feet tall x 18 inches thick) then filling inside the stemwall with compacted gravel and floating a slab on top of that on the second pour. Have you had a look at the pictures?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tcvermont/sets/72157600786483668/

Tom

FrankInWIS · August 18, 2007, 08:20:22 AM

the photos you posted are fantastic. it's not without it's complexities is it? ...but all doable with time. Thanks a lot, this is a fantastic comunity.
Frank

August 18, 2007, 09:04:42 AM

The slab pour you did with what looks like heating tubes inside it may be similar to what I'm doing.
I was calling it an elevated slab that will be approximately 18" above the ground level. My builder used the term "monolithic pour". I'm afraid I really didn't understand his explanation of why that was what it was called.
Your pictures are a real education to see. Thanks for posting them.
Christina

PEG688 · August 18, 2007, 09:13:42 AM

QuoteThe slab pour you did with what looks like heating tubes inside it may be similar to what I'm doing.
I was calling it an elevated slab that will be approximately 18" above the ground level. My builder used the term "monolithic pour". I'm afraid I really didn't understand his explanation of why that was what it was called.
Your pictures are a real education to see. Thanks for posting them.
Christina

A "mono" pour is a "foundation " and slab poured as one unit . Generally the edges are thickened , as are any bearing points / walls areas, posts , etc .

Sounds like you both have radient floor heating systems 8-) Nice heat for a full time residence not so good for a vacation cabin unless you can have some viz bang system to turn the heat up or on from your "full time" place as it has a greater lag time in heating the place up to living temps .

FrankInWIS · August 18, 2007, 10:19:30 AM

And with radiant floor you can't turn it all the way off in cold climate becuase of freeze and burst. I know there is an anit-freeze type additive to reduce that likelyhood, but I understand that the more you use of that the lesser the efficiency of the unit. Somehow it must hamper the heat transfer. To get it pretty freeze resistant the efficiency had a lot of degradation from what I saw.

glenn kangiser · August 18, 2007, 10:22:55 AM

While it is the "in" thing, I did 3 sections of the Underground cabin in radiant tubing and I just don't see the benefits being worth the hassles so I don't use it.