Plumbing / electrical / gas questions....

[NM_Shooter]

Trying to plan out plumbing and electrical... some questions.

I'm using 3/8" copper for my gas supply.  Initially I thought I would run the tubing in the walls, but now that I am thinking about it, I don't want to put any connectors behind sheet rock.  I can run the gas line and connectors semi-exposed in the back of cabinets / pantry.  Thoughts?

I purchased a single shower insert.  How does this get attached to the wall framing so it does not rock around?  Deck screws up high through the fiberglass and into the framing?

Who's got an online source for 12V lighting and switches?  What's the issue with using standard 120VAC wall switches to switch 12VDC for small, non-inductive loads?

Do any of the 12V flourescent fixtures have start up problems when really cold?  Any good solutions for 12V halogen flood surface mount fixtures, or....??

I found these : http://www.commandelectronics.com/fluorescent-lights.html  For 30W vs 16W, placed on a 8' high ceiling, does a 16W flourescent fixture provide enough light to do detail work such as wash dishes / cook / play board games, or should I just go with the 30W fixture?  Obviously battery life is an issue here.  I also thought about two 16W units side by side that are individually switched too. 

Tnx...
-f-

[ScottA]

I assume by gas you're talking about propane? Do not put any connections in a concealed location if you are using flared copper. 3/8"? How many BTU's? Not many I hope. 50k max

Nail the flange to the studs on the shower. You'll need to turn a stud flat along the front edge.

[MountainDon]

I used black iron threaded pipe from under the floor, thru the bottom plate and through studs along the wall. I capped each stub and then pressure tested. I have used copper tubing on the inside with flared fittings. They are sometimes a pain to get gas tight, hence never hidden in the wall.

At one time Cooper made a wall switch that also had DC rating. If you can find any of those old style push button switches, push the top one for on and the bottom for off, they work on DC. Their contacts are heavy enough. Basically any wall switch with no audible snap or click is not suitable for DC. Even on low voltage (12VDC) they will eventually burn the contacts, frequently they will weld in the on position.

Carling Switch makes an extensive line of DC rated switches and breakers. Most are not NEC approved for home use but that's not a worry up there where you are. I have some and cut rectangular holes in regular switch plates to wall mount them. Hard to find at times, though there are online vendors. Sorry, no bookmarks on them here.

I bought my Thinlite lights from solarseller.com   They also have edison base CFL's in 12, 24 and sometimes 48 VDC. The Thinlites have never given any trouble in the cabin or the RV.

We have some 15 or 16 watt Thinlites under the upper kitchen cabinets. I use one in the bathroom/shower. It's on the 8 ft ceiling. IMO, it is fine for general lighting for that purpose. I would never be able to comfortably read anything with one of those as the sole ceiling  source of light. We run 26 watt CFL's in most of our table lamps that are used for reading. The light of the table is a 13 watt CFL, okay for dining and games, IMO. (63 yr old eyes need more light than decades younger eyes. It's a fact of life.

[NM_Shooter]

Don, how did you transition from black pipe to flared on the back of your appliances?

I think I'll be okay with 3/8 copper, as I am effectively only reproducing the gas load of my RV, which is all 3/8 copper.  I have a 15kbtu furnace, a three burner RV stove / oven, and a 6 gal hot water tank. 

[MountainDon]

There are adapters cut from brass; pipe threaded one end and flared on the other. I also placed a gas valve on each and every stub inside the cabin. So it went from 1/2" iron pipe to 1/2" MIP x 1/2" MIP brass gas valve to 1/2" FPT x 3/8" male flare adapter.

It seems I never took photos of under the cabinets and behind the fridge/stove.     Looks a little like this with the iron running in the wall to a Tee or El. Then a short nipple out the wall where the gas valve was placed.



That photo shows the supply line to the kitchen appliances running to the left. The copper line to the right is 1/2" that runs to the propane wall heater we decided to add as the cabin was being built.

You should be fine with the 3/8" as my RV uses the same for the same mix of RV appliances. Unless you go a "long" distance, whatever that is. There are tables that give sizes for copper and iron pipe over certain distances and maximum btu flows. I haven't one at my fingertips. That is the reason the wall heater has 1/2". The distance was basically 45 feet.  

[NM_Shooter]

Thanks... I think my longest run will only be 18'.

[MountainDon]

When talking pipe and tubing sizes one must remember to be certain that you and the other party is talking in the same terms; that is I.D. or O.D.

It seems all rigid pipe, iron, copper, plastics, are categorized or sized by the I.D.  However when it comes to flexible tubing, copper, vinyl, the O.D. is the figure listed (sometimes followed by the I'D'  I think that's due to different wall thicknesses.

Here's a chart on propane gas pipe sizing
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propane-gas-pipe-sizing-d_827.html

and one on natural gas sizing
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/natural-gas-pipe-sizing-d_826.html

FYI, the installation manual for my 18,000 BTU propane heater states, for type L copper, measured O.D. and LP gas....
0 - 10 feet   use 3/8" O.D.
10 - 100 feet use 1/2" O.D.
That sort of correlates to the info on the engineeringtoolbox webpage.