Tax Fraud

sparks · March 01, 2009, 11:37:27 PM

I have personal knowledge of two cases of serious abuse....claiming children they did not support.

What would you do?

Snitch???

sparks

glenn kangiser · March 01, 2009, 11:48:30 PM

Not me. they still haven't proved to me that the tax is legal. The tax is fraud itself.

March 02, 2009, 12:08:09 AM

Glenn, I agree with you on the tax legality, but....and that's a big BUTT, it's law whether we like it or not.

What I'm looking at is people screwing the system that the rest of us are trying keep from screwing us....and they are getting away with it!!!

Money for nothin'...and yo' checks for free.

sparks

MountainDon · March 02, 2009, 01:40:03 AM

Quote from: sparks on March 01, 2009, 11:37:27 PM
I have personal knowledge of two cases of serious abuse....claiming children they did not support.

What would you do?

Well, does the alleged fraud harm other innocent people? If the answer is "yes", then the reply to the question of what to do is clear. You report.

Whether or not I personally believe that taxing income is actually legal or not, doesn't really enter into my personal decision on a matter like this. The point is that to the vast majority of Americans, taxes of all sorts are a fact of life. Even those of us who begrudge the amounts remitted to the treasuries at all levels of government, do pay whatever we can't get out of by playing the game. Face it, we do get some things out of the deal; the roads we drive on to get to our country retreats for one.

People who are profiting from intentionally reporting false information in an attempt to reduce their tax burden are placing an additional tax burden on everyone else. Plain and simple.

I would report that abuse as readily as I would report a game poacher, a drunk driver, a spouse beater or any number of other activities that unfairly impact the lives of other people.

glenn kangiser · March 02, 2009, 02:01:48 AM

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081113151432AAjwOKn

good reading

March 02, 2009, 09:32:50 AM

"AGENTS... Our tax system is based on individual self assessment and voluntary compliance... the material contained in this handbook is confidential in character. It must not under any circumstances be made available to persons outside the service." Additionally, in the handbook you will find this quote: Before proceeding with a summons, consider.... "the adverse effect on voluntary compliance by others if the enforcement efforts are not successful." Section 363 (2) Fred Goldberg, the IRS Commissioner in 1991....said..... "This year there was a very large voluntary response by the taxpayers; over half a trillion dollars came in and virtually all of it was self-assessed." Margaret Milner Richardson, the IRS Commissioner in 1993, said, "Thank you for making this nation's tax system the most effective system of voluntary compliance in the world."

It may be true, but I never hear about anyone getting away with refusing to comply. Mostly their property is liened or they go to jail. That's scary to me.

Squirl · March 02, 2009, 09:35:40 AM

There is a tax reward program for additional funds collected by the IRS. I believe it is usually 10% of the additional funds collected. The problem is you might have a difficult time getting the IRS to do anything. Two extra children are usually a total extra deduction of $10,000. If they are in the 25% income bracket ($20,000 - $80,000) then this is $2,500 in extra taxes. If you were to get 10%, that is $250 only after the IRS gets paid and that means they get $2,250 for all that effort. If you have been watching the news lately, they have bigger fish to fry. Also if you collect information after you enter into this agreement, you could be considered a government agent.
This is not legal advice. Nor does it establish an attorney/client relationship. This is for educational purposes strictly. Consult an attorney when entering any complex legal situation. This is not tax advice and should not be used to evade any tax or penalty by the IRS.

glenn kangiser · March 02, 2009, 09:50:31 AM

No free lunch.

They illegally broke into my mailbox and opened my mail in 1983.

They are the enemy,

I will be a thorn in their side until I die.

They do not scare me.

I like to play with them by their rules. I refused audit for a year and a half by their rules. I finally got an accepted as filed. I did finally send in copies of my invoices to comply with their request and I hired an enrolled agent to mess with them. I did not give them a penny.

It is not safe to do if you don't study thier laws and things that must be done.

Most of their auditors are business dropouts or never made it to business. One actually sent me an audit order - the original typed on a real typewriter......A REAL TYPEWRITER.....COMPLETE WITH INK FILLED LETTERS.

I thought I was being stalked by psycho. They use pseudonyms for names ... I do not have to give my business information to a fraud - an impersonator.... he would not give me his real name.

Is it voluntary or mandatory -- I never got an official answer ... just threats to volunteer from every major office in California and a big rebuff from an annoyed person at the "Department of Justice"

in Washington DC.

I told them I would submit to audit when they answered my questions - 20 of them -- I wanted to comply but they were not cooperating.

I am a taxpayer - they are public servants.... I have the right to an answer don't I. Grovel, grovel.... not me. Jail would be fine --- free food.

They wouldn't send me as they want me to go hungry.

I figure two can play their game. It is an exciting hobby.

MountainDon · March 02, 2009, 11:21:25 AM

It never occurred to me that there could be a reward.

As for the amount collected by the IRS being a small amount compared to other things out there, that's true, it is so small that it likely won't make any difference in the grand scheme of the tax collection system. However, multiply that by the number of years this has occurred or will occur and it starts to add up.

So if I choose to pay as little as I can by legally accepted means I expect nothing less from others. Use whatever legal means you can find to lower your tax bills, but if a person cheats they deserve to be caught/turned in.

I suppose each one of us must make a personal choice if faced with situations like this.

A few years ago as I was walking from a store to my truck a guy standing at the rear of his fan, with the doors open, asked me if I was interested in buying a VCR. He gave me some story, now forgotten, about why he has so many for sale. All were new in box. Anyhow it didn't ring true. At that time I didn't own a cell phone, but there was a cop coffee and lunch spot a block away. I found 2 cops there and interrupted their coffee. They hot footed it over to the guy with the VCR's. Curiosity got the better of me and I cruised over to see what was happening. The guy was arrested. Later from the newspaper I learned that he was charged with stealing the VCR's from the freight company warehouse he worked at.

March 02, 2009, 12:59:51 PM

Quote from: glenn kangiser on March 02, 2009, 09:50:31 AM

It is not safe to do if you don't study thier laws and things that must be done.

I second this.

muldoon · March 02, 2009, 01:49:34 PM

Maybe he is just trying to get his qualifications in order to be an Obama cabinet member?

..
Just kidding, people have to make their own choices in life and deal with the consequences of their actions. I would not snitch on anyone for tax evasion, but I wouldn't help them when the consequences of this land on their doorsteps. ie they may indeed lose everything and go to prison. To each their own and all that, but I believe we should be paying our dues to society. All I control in life is me and my family - I would not impose my beliefs on others, nor would I snitch on them if they were doing something illegal but without a victim.

Glen, I understand your position; but you were quite happy to have those firefighters up on that mountain with tax payers funded fire trucks last year. Have you considered that?

ScottA · March 02, 2009, 05:09:01 PM

Sounds like the trick my exwife pulled. She claimed the kids on her taxes for years even though I had custody of them. She even tried to claim them after they got jobs and moved out on their own. As far as I know the IRS never did anything to her even though we both claimed the same kids.

considerations · March 03, 2009, 12:00:55 AM

My first job in an office was as a clerk in an accountant's firm. One day one of the accountants came out of his office after a client left and he looked really upset. When i asked him if everything was ok, he said No. He'd been doing this client's taxes for years and just figured out that he'd been claiming her dog as a dependent.

The story dates me, this was long before a dependent had to have a social security number to put on a tax return.

glenn kangiser · March 03, 2009, 01:19:32 AM

Quote from: muldoon on March 02, 2009, 01:49:34 PM
Maybe he is just trying to get his qualifications in order to be an Obama cabinet member?

..
Just kidding, people have to make their own choices in life and deal with the consequences of their actions. I would not snitch on anyone for tax evasion, but I wouldn't help them when the consequences of this land on their doorsteps. ie they may indeed lose everything and go to prison. To each their own and all that, but I believe we should be paying our dues to society. All I control in life is me and my family - I would not impose my beliefs on others, nor would I snitch on them if they were doing something illegal but without a victim.

Glen, I understand your position; but you were quite happy to have those firefighters up on that mountain with tax payers funded fire trucks last year. Have you considered that?

Absolutely. I pay taxes that support them -- I pay road use tax. I even fed them and gave them a place to stay and toilet facilities, phone - internet - anything they needed. I cleared out a safe area for them to watch for hot spots from without danger of fire getting near them. More than the rest of the local taxpaying citizens did, but they had been thrown off of their property by the Sheriffs, - but many of them needed to go - they could not do anything to help the firefighters or themselves - lots of city government dependent types and elderly or disabled. No problem as long as they leave me alone.

My wife even pays federal tax and I file to get the excess she paid in back. She is a federal employee and they are legally required to pay withholding in. Funny that an IRS employee mentioned that to me implying that she did even if I didn't and she was right. I was about a year late filing. Not for 2007 though - I filed it last month.

I are a tax paying citizen.

The IRS has nothing to do with the firefighters or roads or anything of that sort. The Federal Reserve is a private bank - owned by the elite and the taxes collected by the IRS only pay interest which the owners of the Fed get. It does not go to benefit the US.

We have a whole new passel of taxpayer funded Firetrucks coming - paid for by our county taxes.

I just do not want my money used to fund interest on the money used for undeclared illegal wars killing innocent civilians in foreign defenseless oil rich countries. Who is paying the principal? hmm

March 03, 2009, 02:07:35 AM

My philosophy about evading taxes is similar to my long time practice about stealing----I will not do it unless I can try for a payoff equal to or better than the risks----in other words, I may succumb to the temptation to steal several millions or evade millions in taxes but, I will not shoplift a candy bar or bother to chisel a few hundred on my tax return----I believe many share my belief---we admire and glamorize bold and successful thieves and disdain the petty criminals. I am sure I have my price-----I only hope it is really big!

glenn kangiser · March 03, 2009, 02:40:15 AM

I just try to avoid all I can legally by conducting my business in such a way as to never have an obligation to the IRS as I was advised to do by the nice lady IRS Agent. I actually still consider her a friend and she confirmed she told me that, I'm sure, at an audit of outside contractors they were considering calling employees.

I dropped her name and her instructions and they dropped the audit. She's a boss there now I heard.

sparks · March 04, 2009, 12:28:36 AM

Well,well,well

Turns out no snitching will be forthcoming......not that I'd have done it anyway

One of the parties mentioned above just got a letter from the 'agency' requesting documentation and evidence of support. The blowback from this will probably get the other party shortly. It appears that there has been a certain amount of child swapping going on for several years, for tax AND babysitting credit.

sparks

ps.....I know these people doing this quite well, they are my wife's children. And I'm very ~~pissed~~ appalled.