bullies?

[muldoon]

My daughter is in second grade, she rides the bus home from school every day.  This week she tells me that the older kids on the bus cuss and swear alot but that one kid has been asking her for money.  She was visibly upset about it, and implied she was feeling threatened.  I always thought this was something I would have to teach my son how to handle when the time came around but I didnt expect it with her.  What kind of sick .#.!.. bullies a little girl? 

Anyway, I'm looking for ideas or thoughts from others on how you might approach the issue.  Anyone else deal with this? 

[Homegrown Tomatoes]

Muldoon,
First of all, I'm sorry for your daughter's sake.  Secondly, I'm not surprised that she is being bullied.  The entire year I was in second grade, a kid chased me and my cousin home from school, punched us, threatened us, etc.  He was the same age as me, but bigger.  My cousin and I didn't complain a whole lot about it, but we didn't like him.  My aunt would chastise us for saying we "hated" Shawn or even that we didn't like him.  Well, the first day of third grade came and we were walking home from school when Shawn came up and took my cousin's 3-ring binder and slammed him upside the head with it.  I was able to duck and miss the swing that came my way.  Then he pulled a knife on us (not the first time) and we dropped our stuff and ran down an alley to get away.  We got home, streaked with sweat and tears, and then had to sneak back later to get our stuff, which was strewn all over the alley.  My mom caught us making plans for revenge... I was considering taking my pocket knife to school to defend myself even though I wasn't supposed to fight... I couldn't just let someone beat up my little cousin like that.  Mom started asking questions and realized that it was more than a matter of the kid just calling us names and trying to scare us, but it involved physical beatings, extortion, death threats, etc.  Now, I don't know if paddling is still OK in schools where you are or not, but then it was OK here.  Mom had just gotten off working nights and she talked to the principal at my school.  I'd never been in trouble in my life, but got called out of class to the principal's office that day.  Scared me to death.  Greg (my little cousin) was called in, too, and there was Shawn, sitting nervously in the principal's office.  The principal asked us questions about the bullying and how long it had been going on, etc.  This would only work if you have a principal at the school who cares and has a lick of sense.  Mr. Allison was tall and scary, and before we'd been there too long, Shawn was bawling and blubbering.  The principal told Shawn he was going to have to call my mom and apologize to her for making her come up to the school.  I interjected that she'd just gotten off night shift and that a phone call would wake her up and she'd be a "grizzly bear", at which point Shawn's blubbering became wailing.  Mr. Allison sent Greg and me back to class, retaining Shawn to wear him out.  I don't know how many swats he got, but I could still hear him screaming as I left that building for gym class.  I was still struggling with my Converse hightops when Shawn joined me in the gym, still blubbering and bawling, and started putting his gym shoes on.  He sat down beside me and whimpered, "I just want you to know, you didn't scare me none."  I busted up laughing, which seemed to break the spell he had over me.  He never again laid a finger on us or threatened us, though he did holler names at us across the road. 

When I would ride the school bus from the farm, it was even worse than walking to school and being chased home.  There were fights, porn, and a LOT of foul language.  I don't like trouble, so I sat at the front of the bus with the little kids even when I was in highschool and tried to keep my nose in a book.  Even then, I wasn't immune to the stuff that went on.  One boy got stripped, wrapped in duct tape, and his shoes were thrown out the window.  Kids got beat up, stolen from, and girls got pregnant on the school bus.  This was all 15 or 20 years ago, and I doubt it is any better nowdays.  One of the bullies from that school bus is serving life without parole now for murdering another boy who rode it (it happened after they'd both graduated.)

Anyway, I'm not trying to scare you, but you need to take some action now.  What is the school administrator like?  Is he a force to be reckoned with to the bully, or is he a soft-touch where discipline is concerned?  If he is the latter, don't bother with him.  How about the driver?  Does he/she know what is going on?  If your daughter knows the full names of the bullies, you might try calling their parents and trying to work with them. Then there is always the option of catching the bully yourself and scaring the crap out of him.  Is there anyone who could pick your daughter up from school so she doesn't need to ride the bus?  Your daughter is blessed to have you for a dad... you aren't just telling her to turn the other cheek or not to resent the bully, but you're loking for an actual solution to the problem.  For the record, Shawn, my 2nd grade bully, kind of grew on me, and by the time we graduated we had a mutual respect for one another.  Last time I saw him, we stood in the grocery store and chatted for an hour. 

[peternap]

I am also sorry to hear that Muldoon, but not surprised either.

Boys are easier. Just teach him how to knock the hell out of the kid.
Girls are harder. Been through the same thing with my son and daughter. Girls have to learn to defend themselves too, but differently and in this case, later.

You'll find that disgusting kids usually have disgusting parents and there are a lot of them out there.

The way I handled it (and to be honest, it went against the grain) was to schedule a talk with the school principal. Tell him what was happening and if it doesn't stop, you will ask the local police to get involved because it is extortion and....you'll have your attorney proceed against the school system.

That put the fear of Nap in him and the kid was suspended. The kid's parents had a fit and yes, they were disgusting people.

It did solve the problem though...without me becoming one of those disgusting parents.

Good luck!

[NM_Shooter]

We've been going through our own torment with this too.  My daughter is 12, and from the time she was 10 she has had to deal with pigs on the school bus... both the kids and the drivers. 

First of all, consider the bus driver.  I don't know where they find these folks, but these are not strong, brave, honest hardworking people who care about the kids.  My impression is that they are trying to find a way to make enough money to buy beer and burgers to make it to the next week.  My daughter has told me about kids that do obscene things on the bus and the driver just laughs. 

Also, from what I can tell, things are significantly worse these days than ever before.  The level of sexual reference is off the chart... I suspect we can thank inattentive parents and internet availability for that.  Our kids are seriously being abused by their peers like never before.  And the schools / bus companies just don't care.

We've met with the bus company, had our daughter sit near the front of the bus, and it just does not seen to matter. 

We have had recent success at our school though... the school officer and principal both know my daughter well and they like her a lot.  They know that kids have been picking on her, and subsequently they have called kids in and reprimanded them and reported them to the parents.

Here's the thing that really sucks... the parents don't give a sh!t.  The school we feed into is a north valley ABQ school and is 50% populated with "underprivileged" kids.  Their parents are either in jail, stoned, missing, or some combination.  Schools don't have the ability to use corporal punishment, so the kids are unafraid to be complete thugs.  Once again, luckily we now have a good principal, and he thinks that an education is a privilege, not a right, and he has been expelling the worst of them. 

You have to have an ally in the school.  Go first to the school principal, and explain to him what is going on.  Tell him you want the school officer to talk to the kids on the bus before it leaves.  Have the officer talk to the bus driver to explain what the driver's responsibilities are.  If you get no traction, file a complaint with the school board.  Don't take no for an answer. 

The schools are full of apathetic administrators who will turn their heads and just want to get through the day.  I previously found that teachers and administrators hate to deal with these PITA kids, because it causes discomfort for them so they just ignore it.

Your job is to be a an even bigger discomfort.  I am finding that I have a knack for that.

I am very sorry for your family... these are nasty times, and not about to get better.  You have kindred spirits out here.  Good luck.

-f- 

[John_C]

I am sorry to hear that. It's always difficult, both for the child and parent.  By the grace of God my daughter didn't get too much of it. A little surprising because she didn't really fit in and is slightly built.

In about 9th grade one of the football studs kept harassing her for not being interested in any of the school sports.  At the time the football team had not won a game that year.  At some point my daughter said " Well, I'm on the chess team and the academic bowl team and both are currently undefeated. How is your season going?"  He never bothered her again.

One time she put on mismatched socks by mistake, one black, one navy blue. It really bothered one guy and he gave her a hard time about it.  From then on she went out of her way to wear obviously mismatched socks one day every week or so, just to irritate him.  She would tie dye her socks and wear a red tie dyed and a green tie dyed so he couldn't miss it.

[desimulacra]

John
I really like the way your Daughter handled her problems and commend you for raising her to be like that. But I'm not saying that is the way all kids should act. I raised 4 and they are as different as-if 4 different parents had of raised them. One would punch a bully in a heart-beat, one would figure out how to get the bully punched, one would smile and work it out and one would try never get mad enough to let the bully get under his skin and tend to accept the bully (and yes that one has the most problems). So Muldoon how you handle it will be up to your child's temperament but keep them in mind first and foremost.
Ohh and maybe next time it <might> work if when he asks for money she said she had none ..could she borrow a dollar from him. Bully's generally are not very bright and tend to get confused easily. Good Luck

[apaknad]

my God, what are you people dealing with? i almost started crying just reading the posts. i can't stand people that hurt children, even if the perps are children. what is our society coming to and what does it say about our future when these kids grow up?
i have nothing but admiration and awe for good parents that are doing their best to raise good, responsible children. your solutions to the problems are well thought out and inspiring. i never had children and to be honest with you i think i would have flipped out at some of these situations and done something that wouldn't be very smart in hindsight.my prayers are with you as well as my support.
dan

[apaknad]

john c,
what an intelligent child, you must be very proud of her. sounds like the making of a mover and shaker in whatever she gets involved with in her future.
  dan

[considerations]

I never hurts to add the skill of giving a bully kneezles to your kid's arsenal....just in case they need it.  Most bullies are cowards.  Eye contact and a direct challenge can sometimes scare them enough to stop things.  If not, knowing how to inflict debilitating pain when defense if necessary is a confidence builder for an intended victim.

That said, every situation is different.  I don't envy your position.  My son went through some of that but when he shared the troubles with me I told him about some of my experiences with it.  We got him into kickboxing classes and eventually, when the problems escalated to the point where he was cornered, he was ready and it showed.  There was no fight, the bully backed down, and it stopped. 

That only works sometimes.  We got lucky. I would not want to parent young children in this world. It seems very different to me than when my son was young.

[John_C]

Thank you, she was and is a very low maintenance kid.  In fairness we avoided or out ran some of the real problem areas. My business was very close to her school so I drove her to and from school. She may have ridden the bus once or twice in 13 years. 

She got into the accelerated program and rubbed elbows with the same very small group of kids year after year.  By her senior year there were only four to six kids in any of her classes.  Some parents got upset about the requirements of the program and now any kid is allowed in if the parent asks. So now it's better than the general prison school population but not really accelerated.

She had four different classes over the years with a science teacher who had been GA teacher of the year about 5 times.  He retired the year after she graduated.

It was always very interesting. Our school district has a roughly 50% drop out rate.  I hear all sorts of stories about how bad the schools are. But over the years the kids who wanted an education have come out of those schools very well prepared for college.  My daughter said that they did nothing in her freshman chemistry, biology or calculus classes that she hadn't done in H.S.

She is somewhere between conservative and libertarian and would have fit in poorly at a liberal leaning college.  She chose a small military college and has been very happy there.