The new hired hand

[peternap]

Zeus ready to grade


Zeus ready to fill the Deer Feeders


Happy bears at the deer feeder

[Redoverfarm]

Looks like he is finding his way around.  My son can't get on his 4-wheeler and take off fast enough that his dog has jumped on right behind him.  He is also trying to figure away to get on the tractor but hasn't got that one figured out yet.  Just tags along beside.

[muldoon]

thats awesome, he'll do just fine.   

I been nervous about the hogs and occasional coyotes at my feeders ... you got bears?  yikes. 

[peternap]

Is it even hunting if you feed the deer all summer long and get them used to coming to the feeder?

BTW those bears look impressive... Nice and healthy

The feeding is for the benefit of the deer. It keeps them healthy. In Va, it's illegal to hunt over bait and you have to stop feeding them by September.

[muldoon]

I have no moral dilemma about hunting deer with a corn feeder.  As creatures in the animal world, we are pretty lousy hunters.  We have no claws or teeth for attacking, our sense of smell sight and hearing are weak.  What we do have is the ability to out think the hunted and take advantage of it's predicable nature.  You can see this happen many times in nature.  Especially in sea life where many creatures emit light or change appearance to look like food or cover in order to draw their dinner in. 

I also have no moral qualms about using minnows when I go crappie fishing.  It's the same thing.  If baiting was wrong we would all be fishing with an empty hook.  No thanks.  I like filling my ice chest, and in the fall I like filling my freezer.  I dont hunt for horns, but I do prefer to take mature animals.

As for south and west Texas, if you don't feed during the summers the animals will drop serious pounds and many will die because the grass burns up and doesn't come back until late summer/fall anyway.  The second reason to augment the diet is that mommas will need that extra energy food when the fawns start dropping.  They get backup source of food.  So do I, it works out just fine. 

[BiggKidd]

Hey Peter,

Its great to see you have some help at your place now Zeus looks like a good worker. Has he been digging your post holes for you? I tried to call you yesterday. We built an out house last week. Damn MS is whipping my butt lately. Can't seem to get much done. Been trying to get up with the building inspector too, I guess maybe he has been out of town. Give me a call when you get the chance.

Larry

[peternap]

I'll give you a call a little later Larry. I was at the farm all day yesterday and didn't even turn the phone on until this morning. It was dry as a bone but we must have had some wind. One of the covers on the camper vents had blown off.

Don't let the Building inspector see the Outhouse. It needs health inspector approval.

[peternap]

It was illegal back in Canada also to feed deer...But I knew all kinds of people that did it... One of the hunter tricks was to  go into the woods and build a tree stand by some wild apple trees...In the fall go scoop up a bunch of apples and save em... by the end of september all the apples are gone off the tree...Then the hunters would put a few apples out at that spot every few days to  keep the deer coming... take and alder bush sharpen the top of some branches and push apples down onto the branches to make a mock apple tree.. of course the mock tree is in a perfect sight line for the tree stand...

Real hunting sort of thing... They like the salt licks also

Thing is if you feed the deer 10 months a year on one spot of your land you are still going to have deer on your property during hunting season

Hunting over bait isn't immoral or unethical Benovelance. It is illegal in Va so I don't do it. Hunting is more than ploppinf your butt down in a likely looking spot, and hoping something walks by.

I hunt all year. I just don't kill anything until the season opens.

As far as feeding them, a lot of deer will die if they aren't fed during the summer. As muldoon said, they need the energy while nursing. Deer are over populated in Va. Starving is a wasteful way to die.
This is a picture I got off one of my cameras yesterday. As you can see, even with the feed sites, nursing is hard on them. She'll fatten up in another month since the fawns can now eat solid food (My Corn)



When I was a kid, deer were all but extinct in Virginia. They were killed by farmers to keep them out of crops and poached by people who just shot them for the fun of it. The sportsmen brought them back and we make sure they stay well managed. Game Commission be damned. I know how many deer, bear, quail. turkey and rabbits are in the area, and how many my land can support. I only shoot what I need for meat and then just enough to keep the herd stable.

While the turkey population in the area is good, I have very few so I have turkey specific crops planted and have created areas that are good for turkey growth. I won't kill any until the population is higher.

[peternap]

.. It amazes me how people think they are great hunters because they have a high powered rifle that can shoot 2 miles accurately with a laser sighted scope

Fishing to hunting analogy with bait is not accurate...It would be accurate if you went to the fishing hole every day at the same time and dumped food in the water  at the exact same spot all year long to go and catch a couple of fish there once a year....This is not what you are doing when you stick one small hook into the vast ness of open water where you cannot see

If you take a piece of  corn tie it to a hook and drag it through the woods in the winter and a deer bites the hook gets snared and you kill it... that would be the same thing as what a fisherman does.. when he takes a hook and drops it into the water.

I like analogies just fine folks... but we have to talk apples for apples here... you are cherry picking

Your probably right Benovelance

[desdawg]

If I fed the deer here I could hunt cats too. I always see plenty of sign and wonder when I am walking if I am being watched. Cats are hard to locate in daylight. Being nocturnal critters.

[Redoverfarm]

You say in Va the population is too high...Well  feeding the deer for the purpose of nursing is not helping the situation it is perpetuating the problem.

Cull the herd back to a number where there is sufficient food for the deer and then you eliminate the problem... There might be a few less deer to hunt but if the deep population is stable and healthy in relation to the available food source so much the better.

Our ancestors hunted wild game with their bare hands... crude spears rocks etc... It amazes me how people think they are great hunters because they have a high powered rifle that can shoot 2 miles accurately with a laser sighted scope

Fishing to hunting analogy with bait is not accurate...It would be accurate if you went to the fishing hole every day at the same time and dumped food in the water  at the exact same spot all year long to go and catch a couple of fish there once a year....This is not what you are doing when you stick one small hook into the vast ness of open water where you cannot see

If you take a piece of  corn tie it to a hook and drag it through the woods in the winter and a deer bites the hook gets snared and you kill it... that would be the same thing as what a fisherman does.. when he takes a hook and drops it into the water.

I like analogies just fine folks... but we have to talk apples for apples here... you are cherry picking

Sounds a little like the banking or lending institutions with 1st time home buyers and the really low intrest rates.

[apaknad]

i don't know what you guys are talking about. i like to fish and hunt at the same time. i take my high powered, laser scoped rifle out on the lake and tie on some line baited w/corn on the hook and chum the water. when the fish comes after the baited hook, i shoot them. now i never have hit any fish because the darn rifle is sighted in at two miles. maybe i am unclear on some things

[peternap]

i don't know what you guys are talking about. i like to fish and hunt at the same time. i take my high powered, laser scoped rifle out on the lake and tie on some line baited w/corn on the hook and chum the water. when the fish comes after the baited hook, i shoot them. now i never have hit any fish because the darn rifle is sighted in at two miles. maybe i am unclear on some things

[Redoverfarm]

We usually just use dynamite or carbide jars and a dip net for fish.  All the hunting it's a rifle because dynamite tears them up too bad.

[Homegrown Tomatoes]

Think I missed something here... was anyone here claiming to be a great hunter because they had a high-powered laser-scoped rifle??  I thought first of all y'all were talking about Zeus the dog, and then about hunting to eat, so where did the bragging begin because I missed that part.  Which one of you is the great hunter with the laser whatchmacallit?  Oh, yeah, that was Apaknad, but he was talking about fishing, right?  The way I see it, I'd rather eat a healthy deer than a skinny one... more meat for the freezer.... but if benevolence wants to go hunt for the skinny ones with flint-tipped arrows and bare hands, then more power to him and more meat for the rest of y'all!

[peternap]

Think I missed something here... was anyone here claiming to be a great hunter because they had a high-powered laser-scoped rifle??  I thought first of all y'all were talking about Zeus the dog, and then about hunting to eat, so where did the bragging begin because I missed that part.  Which one of you is the great hunter with the laser whatchmacallit?  Oh, yeah, that was Apaknad, but he was talking about fishing, right?  The way I see it, I'd rather eat a healthy deer than a skinny one... more meat for the freezer.... but if benevolence wants to go hunt for the skinny ones with flint-tipped arrows and bare hands, then more power to him and more meat for the rest of y'all!

But benevolence doesn't hunt....or own a gun

[peternap]

Well Benevolence, you've given your feelings on game management some thought. That's obvious. I don't agree with any part of them but we don't need to agree on anything. I respect your right to feel as you like and express those feelings, Sure won't change anything I do, but you might convince someone.

Now as to weapons used to harvest deer.
First, I have never met anyone, anywhere that used a laser sighted rifle to hunt with. It would be a very poor choice for a sight.
While I do own a number of high powered rifles, I don't hunt with many of them. My 45/70 is a pretty short range propisition and it has a peep sight. Next in line, is my rifle shotgun combo. It does have a 2 power scope.

But......My deer hunting will start with bow season. No laser. I will kill most of the deer I take with that over that month.

Next comes Black Powder season. I hunt with either a caplock or flintlock. I build them myself. I do usually buy barrels from a fellow in Mo that makes them, but I forge the other parts myself. No inlines or lasers or rocket launchers.

When the regular season comes in, I'm about finished deer hunting and it;s time for rabbit, quail, squirrel and some duck hunting.
I am not that much different than many hunters.

So You missed the weapons issue by a few miles.

[Redoverfarm]

When I was growing up it was not really the sport entirely. It was food and the way of life.  Being the son of a game warden of 42 years I grew up hunting.  Believe it or not the game biolgist have a handle on the population through past kills, tagging, surveys and complaints.  They know where a healthy number should be and adjust the kill accordingly.  Yes and it's revenue for the state.  In the unlimited # of deer ( not entirely accurate but there is a high yearly bag limit) there is additional license and stamps that need to be purchased for those additional deer.  Some are included in the license and others are optional for a Fee.

I have to agree to the bear dogs.  To me it is not fair.  But if you looked at other things in the world that are unfair as well.  It is just something we have to live with.  I for one have never hunted over bait or even out of a stand.  I take my chances walking and sitting just like the animals I hunt.  As for dogs with rabbit and birds this is just the manner in which they are hunted.  I can't fly or run to keep up with a rabbit but the dogs are still giving them a fighting chance to escape just as they would be persued by other natural preditors. 

I would say that the bag limits will still increase for years to come as we (Humans) have taken over their territory and there is just so much room left.  If you leave it to the animals they would be crawling through the windows to get food.  Some do already here (several cases as year) and devistate the houses.

Everything has to do with checks and balances and hunting is just one aspect of that.  It promotes healthier animals when they are kept within their population and keeps us healthier as well.

[Redoverfarm]

Well Peter we successfully derailed this thread didn't we.

[Homegrown Tomatoes]

Zeus looks like a nice doggie... there, are we back on track?

[muldoon]

I respect your opinion benevolence, and had I come up a different way in life I might even have shared it. 

I noticed you said a word I also don't understand in context when some people speak of hunting, "sporting".  Not very sporting to do this, well hunting is not a sport.  Its not football, I am not competing with anyone else.  I care not what size horns I bring down.  My goals are to participate in nature and to actively be part of the food chain.  Sure we can all go to Walmart and buy our meat, just like we could all go to Centex, Beazer and Ryland to build our homes but thats just not something I am interested in at the 100% level.  I enjoy teaching my children about gardening, and watching them get excited about the lil cherry maters, or seeing their eyes pop out when we bring up a 10lb catfish, and seeing how much they life eating both because it is real to them.  They did not consume nature as a mindless consumer, they participated in it.  Both of mine are still a little young for hunting, but when the time is right I'll find my way to teach them what I think is important and they'll get to decide how they feel about it. 

As for weapons, I hunt with a rather lackluster remington .270 rifle with a leupold 3x9 scope.  No lasers for me.  To tell the truth I even dont like the rifle that much.  It was a cheapy model rifle and the action is sorta rough.  The problem is in past years I have literally shot it all of twice a year and brought home 2 deers.  I cant fault the thing, it just works.  Much like that husky hammer I bought when I was 23 that I still have even if I would rather have the craftsman.  Cant toss it out because I'm just not wired that way. 

Anyway, I guess all I am trying to say is that I get the impression your perception is that all hunters are out there with some sort of blood lust and cannons on their shoulder to shoot proverbial fish in a barrel.  Not everyone has that approach to hunting.  It also can be a very rewarding and spiritual event, celebrating the circle of life.