The end is very near

[peternap]

OH...NO !!!!!
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/29/business/29regulate.html?ei=5065&en=7ba12b1b93b17830&ex=1207368000&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print

[Sassy]

 

[peternap]

Sorry, wrong forum. My bad!

[glenn kangiser]

I can handle that.

[ScottA]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23853415

More on this. Looks like the homeland security of the financial world or are they just giving them the rest of the keys.

[glenn kangiser]

Bush is proposing...

Look for another scam to be set up to rip off the little guys, investment, and the tax money and give it to the elite.

[Sassy]

Here's a link to the video The Money Masters  rather long but excellent history of our country & its relationship to the bankers...  going back to Great Britain & France - The War of 1812, Civil War, Napoleon & the Rothchilds...  http://www.dailypaul.com/   

[muldoon]

This is nothing short of an all out panic on their part.  They are so afraid of a deflationary collapse they will try anything to avert it.  In one way I think I understand their motivation in doing so, but it still pisses me off to no end. 

They created this mess, the Fed, Congress and the SEC.  In some ways it looks like the fed directly oversaw the deflation of monetary base since last August and are directly responsible for direct dependance on them for backstopping.  Now the us treasury and whitehouse have a plan to give them more power and regulatory control over the banks.  This is a direct move to nationalize and monetize the debt.  Might as well put the hammer and sickle on our flag and get it over with. 

At some point this will fall apart.  Quite frankly it is impossible to put the aling financial institutions losses on the backs of our existing taxpayers.  We can borrow the funds, but this is unlikely because america is generally tapped out already and we talking truly huge numbers.  500 trillion in derivites is more money than exists in the world.. quite frankly it cannot be bailed out.  Our dollar falling is a direct result of the international communities loosing faith in our ability to repay the loans we have made much less our ability to increase that deficit 50 times over.  The last option is to print money and inflate it away (and to date this has not happened,  fed injections are loans, not printing!).   Thats disaster and they know it, its zimbabwe, its weimar.  its a dead end. 

The fed is trying to walk the fine line here.  Just keeping things working long enough for the system to heal itself.  If they can hold things together until the underlying assets begin appreciating then this may blow over.  The system wont heal itself as long as 0% down no document loans are being handed out and the banks do not trust each other.  Trust wont be restored until the damages can be measured and risk understood.  The problem is that if damages and risks were unhidden the whole house of cards may likely fall apart.  While I complain and moan about what their doing, it's certainly not a job I would want!

[glenn kangiser]

The fall of the USSR was engineered by the US through the use of their CIA asset, Osama Bin Laden, to trick the Russians into fighting an un-winable war in Afghanistan.

The US is currently using Osama (or the legend of Osama-probably dead) and other means to keep us in a war in Afghanistan and Iraq and various other places.  Our current greedy idiots running the country are profiting from oil and the war machine at the expense of the life of the United States.

Some say the failure of the US is the plan to do away with the Constitution and get us into the one world government.

[Sassy]

Here's another link on the Federal Reserve...   http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/BIGGESTSCAMINHISTORY.HTML

[ScottA]

I've been looking at the problems the banks are having. Basicly all these bundled mortgages (securities) have lost value on the markets to the point where they can't sell them. This in effect gives them a near zero value. Problem is that is an illusion. The mortgages that back these securities still have real value and real income since only a small portion of these loans are in default. But since no one knows how to value them or predict how many of the loans will default no one wants to buy them. This creates the near zero value. Someone is going to end up owning all this paper for pennies on the dollar. Paper that has real value much higher than it is currently selling for. All this sound familiar? Go back and look at the stock market crash and the great depresion. Same thing happened then but it was stocks that got bought up for pennies instead mortgages. This whole deal was engineered IMO, to transfer massive wealth at a huge discount.

[sparks]

   Not sure I follow everything you said there Scott, but when you said 'engineered', just couldn't agree more. I saw something today that said history might not exactly repeat itself, but occasionally rhymes.

[apaknad]

hi all,
second post. still reading as much as i can but haven't seen it all yet. here's my views and apologies if already posted.
to be secure as possible in the future you should have:
     1) land and home(paid for if poss.)
     2) safe storable food and means to preserve and grow it.
     3) firearms in common calibers for rifles(3.06,308,22 is a good start), shotguns(12 gauge slugs,00, field shot) and handguns(.45,.38,357 mag,22). Ammunition could very well be the next money(i will trade you one can of beans for two .308 rds).
    4) very large first aid kit
    5) books to understand all things about living independently(no computer stuff)
    6)u.s. coins(pre 1964 for most coins) with silver content for bartering and if need be they will still operate in coin dispensed items.
    7) friends that think alike.
    tractor and implements
    9) means of water purification and fire starting
This to me would be a good starting point and by no means all inclusive.                                                                                       

[glenn kangiser]

Sounds like a good part of a plan.

[Pox Eclipse]

to be secure as possible in the future you should have: 

I plan to secure my future by going into the business of selling storable food, firearms and ammunition, first aid kits, books on independent living, silver coins, tractors and implements, water purification and fire starting tools.

Oh, and Robert Heinlein books.

[glenn kangiser]

There should be more and more takers soon.

[desdawg]

Apaknad,
Will we have to buy your goods with silver coins?

[apaknad]

hi desdawg,
not quite sure what your point is but i see silver coins as a stop gap measure to barter with by people that have lost faith in paper and understand that there is silver in these coins. eventually it will be all barter with labor traded or things like ammo and tools for food, etc.
if i missed the mark on this then please try and forgive an old marine that sometimes takes himself to seriously.

[peternap]

If you want a real good and modern day example of precious metal bartering, look no further than the mid 70's in Cambodia. When the Khmer Rouge took power, the only market in town was the Black Market and the only currency was Gold or Silver. Not a bad system!

[desdawg]

I guess if most people have silver coins it would be do-able. If I dig around I may find a few stashed away somewhere. But probably not enough to survive on for very long. Most of the gold that I have is in my fuel tank and being consumed.

[apaknad]

i buy old siver coins at trade shows. $10-$25 at a time. don't have any gold.

[Sassy]

My grandfather collected coins & gave them to my mom, who gave them to us kids in the family (correct grammar?  we kids? lol)  I also started purchasing some collectable (1890's, early 1900's) $20 gold coins when the price was down a few $100.  I have a cousin whose husband purchased lots of gold coins when prices were in the $200 - wish I'd done that then... 

[muldoon]

I do not own gold other than family jewelry but I do have two bags of "junk silver" coins, each bag containing 100 dollars face value of pre-1964 dimes that contain 90% silver.  About 11 dimes is an ounce, with an ounce being worth about 17 bucks these days- about $1.50 apiece.  Specifically I have mercury dimes, which were made between the 19-teens and 1945.  While they all have some abuse and have been circulated, they still retain numasmatic value aside from just spot metal value.  If the price of silver skyrockets as some say this should do nicely, if not each of my children get some nice old coins when they are grown up. 

I am not convinced that gold and silver are the safest way to store value right now.  As one considers the contracting nature of our credit problems, we can only look at deflation - where values of commodities drastically go down in value.  Our fearless leaders in the Fed have tried to offset the loss by spitting liquidity into the system and may have blown the proverbial wad causing our oil spike.  It's being unwound now, and the potential is there for the momentum to carry far to the other side.  If that were to happen, I would expect to see the value of gold/silver go down.  Problem is, oil is the new gold. 

If you think the situation will hyperinflate - gold seem like a good play.  However, why not SPY LEAP calls if the hyperinflate theory holds true the leverage in options would pay back huge.  The only reason I see to by gold is to protect yourself from a complete dollar collapse.  If the dollars wash away, the gold retains its value - and wil be re-priced in watever were to replace the dollar.  Thats a stretch in my opinion, but the only reason to hold gold that I see. 

I like assets myself, and think solid investments in land, animals, water, tools and knowedge will pay back the best in the next 3 years.  They also remain under your complete control and cannot be devalued much making them low risk. 

apaknad - why soo many guns?  Seems easier to me to have just a few, I like .270 for deer, 12 gau for everything else, and a .45 for my hip/bedside.  oh yeah, gotta have .22s for plinking. 

[apaknad]

hi all,
my point wasn't to say you should own all these firearms but when you purchase a firearm try to keep it in common calibers for possible trade/barterin the future. that being said, you can never own enough guns . All seriousness aside, if you want a good investment, look at what the price of firearms have been doing over the years and imagine what would happen if more fed restrictions were put in place like when clinton was in office.
on a side note, i buy bulk ammo at trade shows and higher quality ammo in stores in smaller quantities. i also purchased reloading supplies for future use(haven't learned to reload yet). just trying to stay one step ahead.

[desdawg]

I moved my semi tractor to a consignment yard to put it up for sale last weekend. I discovered I had about 250 gallons of diesel fuel on board as both 110 gallon tanks were nearly full. So when I say all of my gold is in my fuel tanks that is what I meant. All of my tractors and every fuel container I could lay my hands on quickly are now full. There was maybe 50 gallons left on board when I delivered the truck.
I never got into collecting coins or jewelry so if the world suddenly went to a precious metal currency I would be in a bad spot as would many other people. Whatever the new currency would wind up being it would have to be something more than just a few people had access to in order to be viable. Even gas & diesel don't store indefinitely without going bad. Food stores spoil so maybe ammo is the answer as long as you keep your powder dry.