Help me decide how to heat my water

[brmzr]

Hi all,

I am in northern VT. I've got a cape of 1.5 stories, 1100 sq ft, and a full walk-out basement of about 700 sq ft. The property the house is on is 18 acres of mostly softwoods.

Right now it's just me that will be living there - no family.

The house is currently uninsulated, has no running water, and is set up with a woodstove in the middle of the 1st floor. It is hooked up to town electricity.

I am planning on having the house sprayfoamed and was told with insulation the existing woodstove can heat the whole house.

What I'm asking about is hot water. What are my options? I'd love to not have to rely on outside vendors.

Getting either an IWB or OWB would make the existing wood stove not necessary since they'd heat both hot water and the house. Or I could keep the existing wood stove and heat my water via propane or electricity.

Propane - have to pay
Electric - have to pay
OWB - can burn softwoods from my land
IWB - would have to buy hardwood
IWB with gasification - can burn softwoods?

Help!

[MountainDon]

Solar?  With propane or electric backup... or solar preheating and gas/elec finish

[UK4X4]

http://www.axeman-fireflue.com/

Sure a local fab shop could make you one up out of stainless

[brmzr]

Solar is off the table, it's not a very sunny property.

I do have much elevation, a small wind turbine is a total possibility up on a hill.

Micro hydro is as well, but I'm not sure of the legality of letting something sit in a waterway.

[Patrick]

This might give you some ideas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64_iWTZzqIQ But I'm not sure how you would run any boiler system without electricity to run the circulator pump.

[Patrick]

part 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fECdUR80ERQ

[MountainDon]

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=13519.msg177415;topicseen#new

[flyingvan]

My vote's propane.  Pretty cheap, and unless you heat your house with wood 365 days a year the wood based options lose their appeal in Summer.  Propane adds quite a bit of backup safety as well----great way to store energy for a generator, run a gravity wall furnace if you get too sick to deal with wood.  You can cook, refrigerate, and illuminate with it.  Tanks come in all sizes, some of which you can haul to whoever has the best price. 
Cuyamaca Cottage was built with propane back up in mind.  With our frequent power failures it's nice to be able to go 'off grid' without difficulty.  If you go only by the cost of the propane (and ignore the wear and tear on the generator) it's close to the same cost to buy grid electricity or make our own.  Driving home in bad weather to the only house around all lit up is a good feeling

[JRR]

Many of our fore bearers kept themselves fairly socially acceptable by an occasional bath using poured-up water that was heated atop a wood/oil/coal/gas burning stove.  Many a meal was prepared there also.  Simple metal buckets and other vessels only are needed.  (If excessive water vapor is a concern, a stove-top pressure cooker may be the vessel of choice.)  If I were living alone and remotely, stove top water heating would be my choice.  No pipes to freeze.

[Alan Gage]

If money and convenience are your main considerations I'd go with an electric or propane hot water heater.

My house is all electric (water, dryer, stove, backup heat) and I have a very well insulated 50 gallon hot water heater that cost $200 from my electric cooperative. I live alone, take long hot showers every few days in the winter and short cool ones in the summer. Wash clothes once or twice a month. Cook most of my meals on the electric stove, do a fair amount of baking, and only run the electric heat when I leave town for more than a couple days in the winter (very rarely).

I pay $15-20 for electric useage every month @ .11/kw hour (plus the $30 monthly connection fee). I'd originally looked into solar and wind when I was starting my house but it soon became apparent for my usage that as long as I was going to stay connected to the grid (getting clipped with the $30 connection fee) that there just wasn't a payoff and the hassle level went through the roof. But there's also the tinkering factor which appeals to a lot of people.

Alan

Alan

[JRR]

Still in the news is another house, a "mansion" in fact, that was destroyed in a propane gas explosion ... they think!  It seems every heating season there is at least one house explosion in the local news caused by propane gas.  When I was a youngster, a local business person blew his block-building meat processing plant apart when he opened one morning ... apparently due to propane leaks and his smoking habits.

Is propane gas more dangerous than natural gas ...?  Well consider the whole picture: my natural gas provider monitors the neighborhood for leaks.  And, once, a few years ago I got the knock on my door ... the gas person was there saying they detected a gas leak coming from my basement (hot water heater, furnace ...both gas).  Sure enough they located and marked the leaking pipe fitting.  A few days later there was a follow up visit/test to assure the leak was fixed.

I don't think most propane gas installations get this survey ... perhaps it can be asked for, from the gas supplier.  I would sure take extra precautions if I installed propane gas fixtures inside a house.  Perhaps even buy a gas detector of some kind.

[MountainDon]

Propane is heavy, it pools in low spots. If a leak is in a room and the floor and door bottoms are tight the room could fill up with a pool of propane gas. NG is lighter than air; a much smaller molecule. It diffuses better.    That probably has something to do with it.

[flyingvan]

    Natural gas will naturally vent away if there's an opening above.  The flammability range is about 5 LEL to 15 UEL, where propane is narrower---2.1 to 9.5.  An annual pressure test for either system is prudent.  By code, you can't create 'sump' situations with propane appliances that will allow for pooling.  Propane has more BTU's per pound but cost per BTU is usually comparable.  Propane can get tricky in really cold climates if your tanks are above ground; it can stop vaporizing enough to keep up with demand if there's insufficient ambient heat. 
    There are some anecdotal propane catastrophes to be sure.  Investigation is notoriously difficult... However, I don't know of any cases of people bleeding to death from chainsaw injuries while gathering propane, abdominal injuries from using a propane splitter, or someone falling down the icy stairs while carrying an armload of propane

[Kramer]

However, I don't know of any cases of people bleeding to death from chainsaw injuries while gathering propane, abdominal injuries from using a propane splitter, or someone falling down the icy stairs while carrying an armload of propane

If you're handling cylinders, there's been plenty of strained backs and crushed fingers.


Anyways, like any other fuel gas, use caution, follow established safe practices, and inspect your system on a regular basis.  A propane detector/shutoff is also not a bad idea in some applications.

[flyingvan]

Very true.....For my first build I got my hands on a 110 gallon upright tank and parked on a slope uphill from its pad.  Ropes and a climbing friction device eased it out of the back of the truck (with gate removed) until halfway out it rolled and bashed in the tail light which remains bashed in 11 years later.  Those things are HEAVY!