Conspiracies....

[rwanders]

Windpower, please note that I said--"....in this video..". You are right, I did not do google search for Perkins---I was depending solely on the youtube video you posted.

I still have not heard or saw your or his suggestion for better system than capitalism---actually, fascism and socialism are very close kissing cousins, and both failed miserably. Give me an alternative other than capitalism---flawed as it is, as any human endeavor is, it still has produced the best life for the biggest group in history of world----perhaps you can find a better system on google. I will gladly embrace it if you can show me one that has demonstrated that ability.

I do believe we do share our wealth with others---making funds available for their investment in their economies through both loans, foreign aid and direct investments. How else would you suggest? Perhaps we should confiscate everything beyond a bare subsistence from the wealthier nations and transfer it to the rest of the world----might get a few percentage of their populations a little closer to poverty level---but only for one year----after that, why should we try and create more wealth? We can just wait for our share of the handouts with everybody else.  Seems like that was the result of socialism in it's past attempts----but perhaps I can find examples of their successes in google. If only they had tried some brutal authoritarianism and forced collectivism perhaps they could have overcome that stubborn human nature-----oh drat!, I googled that---they did try it.

How much of your personal funds, other than through taxes to support foreign aid have you provided to help the populations downtrodden by the US?

I agree ranting about evil capitalism is much cheaper for you.  By the way, how much of your wealth and lifestyle is gained by participation in "fascist/capitalism"?  Did you send your tax refund to the starving peoples of the world?-----Sorry, that was a cheap shot.

Windpower, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. But, I always enjoy our discussions. You clearly believe what you believe and that is all an honest man can do.

Respectfully,  RW

[rwanders]

Doesn't sound too bad... and if we all lived like that, it would certainly solve a lot of problems.

Mr Bass, if you ever come to Alaska, you could visit Native Alaskans and a few of us Gussuks still trying to live a "subsistence lifestyle"----it is not a pretty picture, not the romantic existence some naive Outsiders envision. It is hard, cruel and can be soul-killing. Others have had some success by blending subsistence with the money economy---it's still not much like living Outside.

("outsiders" is the Alaskan's term for those who live in the rest of the world-- When we are leaving Alaska, we say we are "going Outside")

[rwanders]

Sassy, I share more of your thoughts than you can imagine---I do not think all is good in US or anywhere else-----but some posters here seem to think EVERYTHING is evil, everything is a vast conspiracy and within minutes or hours of an event, they immediately trumpet that "it's another conspiracy'----it seems to be the only explanation they can ever believe, seems to be their compulsive obsession to see conspiracies everywhere----sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

God Bless You and all of us.

RW

[ScottA]

Dude you need a drink. "Pours rwanders a schnapps". There ya go. So...how bout them Cowboys?

[rwanders]

   Thanks Scott!  I needed that---you're right, I need to take a breath and maintain some perspective on reality---I can't level out everybody's head. Some will always be half a bubble off--and sometimes I'm sure I am too.

RW

[Windpower]

"How much of your personal funds, other than through taxes to support foreign aid have you provided to help the populations downtrodden by the US?"


Thousands of dollars.

You ?


BTW

nice edit  of your previous post

[glenn kangiser]

RW, it's not really so much a new conspiracy every time something new is announced.  It is all part of the vast conspiracy to manufacture consent for global murder in the name of big industry, big profits for the elite and power over the world.  I have posted multiple links to GHWB telling you they will be successful, they flimflam you every few weeks with another big pharma required medicine for the latest government pharmaceutical investors association profit taking, the latest no bid contract to Cheney and company, and yet you see nothing wrong....

Both parties are the same - and if it is said to be change to get into office, it is still more of the same after the lies have softened a bit... and why no turn around --- because....it is a conspiracy ---both sides are the same.....both will do exactly as they are commanded.

But I don't really expect you to look at things as they are.  It's OK.

The easiest way to gain control of the population is to carry out acts of terror. The public will clamor for such laws if the personal security is threatened. - Joseph Stalin

Conspiracy Nuts and Conspiracy Theories

"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States —in the fields of commerce and manufacturing—are afraid of somebody. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it." - Woodrow Wilson

"A financial element in the large centers has owned the government since the days of Andrew Jackson." - Franklin Roosevelt

"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order." - David Rockefeller

"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans." - Bill Clinton

"Today, America would be outraged if UN troops entered Los Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all people of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the world government." - Henry Kissinger (Bilderburg Conference 1991 Evians, France)

"Naturally the common people don't want war...but after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship...all you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country." Herman Goering ( One of Hitler's top men, during the Nuremberg Trials)

...and my favorite...

The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists. - Edgar J Hoover

For more of how they think of us....

http://www.tentmaker.org/Quotes/conspiracy_%20nuts_theories.htm

[rwanders]

Glenn, I respect your right to your opinions but, I do feel sad and puzzled that a strong and capable man like you can feel so powerless----I don't believe you actually live your life as if you are ruled by mysterious persons and organizations. I know I am not some omnipotent independent power but I have never felt or lived like a beaten down powerless man. How you perceive the world does affect you in many ways---if you think you are powerless, you will act in that mode. I have never met you but I know you are not like that.

As said, I am not pretending that I am unaffected by the govt policies or other large institutions but, as I have posted before, I have ignored, evaded and defied the "authorities" at will for most of my 68 years without repercussions. They are all much less omnipotent or all-knowing then they would like us to think. Their power over us is really dependent on our perception of it-----you may think that I am just being fooled but, I have not lived my life in that belief and i don't believe you have either.

I am content to let them have their little victories----I don't tilt at their windmills. I just walk around them while the Don Quixotes distract them.

RW

 

[Don_P]

RW, do you think you would have felt even more powerful and cunning evading them if you had convinced yourself that they were right outside looking for YOU?

[bayview]

   Again . . .    

  These posts make good conversation.   Nothing will ever happen though . . .    

   The "evil doers" will continue to do "evil".   The conspirators will continue to conspire.   Etc. etc . . .    They are always left unchecked.  

   . . . Nobody will do anything.   The ones "in the know" are profiting by it.   Some are on government assistance and afraid to do anything.   Most are to busy in their simple life's and don't care.   Some will criticize, hoping someone else will take over.   Their "Messiahs" ultimately fail.   Creating another conspiracy. . .  

  It must be a terrible feeling . . .    Being "enlightened", but doing nothing!   Completely overwhelmed . . .  Having so much to lose . . .    

/.

[glenn kangiser]

Not really a feeling of powerlessness - I know you can't change it either.  It is like the difference between sitting in the outhouse when the mean boys come in the night to push it over during your regular visit,  and knowing they are planning to push it over and not being in it when they do it.  It is like the companies who moved out of the trade center weeks and days before it went down.  It is like Silverstein who conveniently had a breakfast appointment when his office went down....bummer.

I don't feel powerless against them.  Knowledge is power and as you, I avoid them.  Easier to avoid them if you know what they are up to.  As you and Bayview mention, they will do as they want and are pretty much unchecked except by other PTB who don't agree with them or want to sway events in a different direction.  

We are just a herd of cattle to them and they are the cowboys.  Most of the cows remain unaffected by them.  Some are put down as at 9/11 - sent to the slaughterhouse.... but it is just a days work - the cowboy doesn't feel sorry much for the cows when there are so many in the herd.

Maybe the smart cows are like the wild ones here in the woods - they broke loose - created their own wild herd and look out for themselves.  People have been trying to get them for years but I have never heard of any success.  They are just too smart and do not allow themselves to be herded by the cowboys.  They are always aware of what the cowboys and other humans are doing when they get close.

It is a sense of power looking out for yourself and friends who then can see what is going on and are not walking around scared and bewildered every time the PTB put out another fake Osama Bin Laden video.... now one after his death to keep you scared.  I'm not scared because I know the tape is a fake.  I'm not scared because I know they are lying again about their dead Bogeyman.  They couldn't resist throwing him out there oine more time to scare you though.  I just laugh at them.... see ... I'm not powerless or in fear of them because I know what they are up to.  Sad thing is if a terrorist act occurs it will be them that will be promoting it, if not directly then through foreign policy. 

The first WTC bombing was in direct control of the FBI and they were directing the action there.  http://www.rense.com/general63/reply.htm

[Texas Tornado]

For many years I had my head stuck in the ground and refused to believe "Our Government" would or could do this...Without disclosing details I had my eyes opened wide..I am a "show me the proof" person....Knowledge is power. I agree with Glenn the cowboys in charge don't care about the herd...
TT

[Windpower]

Excellent, Glenn

we are exactly the same page

I had a disciussion about the PTB and related items with a long time friend (I just realized it has been 40 years    )

anyway he listens to what I have to say with a somewhat bemused attitude

Last time he asked if it was worth the energy to research this stuff

I said yeah, it saved me a few hundred thousand in my 401K because I knew the collapse was comming in 2007 or 8

He just looked at me and said "my financial advisor said -- nobody saw it comming" -- he lost over 50% of his retirement

I find it empowering to understand the 'game'

I am optimistic that if enough people 'get it' we can throw the bastards out ..

Hell, some guys started it April 19, 1775 and finished it too

[muldoon]

Didn't need to believe in any conspiracies for the 2008 collapse, as for no one saw it coming, I believe it was talked about right here on this forum quite a bit as it played out and in depth at least the 10 months preceding it.  I cashed out 401k and bought land in 2007 because it was obvious then. 

Everything you needed to know was in reuters and in wsj daily, no need for tinfoil to see that one coming. 

ps - everything you need to see to understand various sovereign debt crashes are in the same places every day now, betcha they play the "nobody saw it coming" on that fiasco next year as well. 

[archimedes]

Didn't need to believe in any conspiracies for the 2008 collapse, as for no one saw it coming, I believe it was talked about right here on this forum quite a bit as it played out and in depth at least the 10 months preceding it.  I cashed out 401k and bought land in 2007 because it was obvious then. 

Everything you needed to know was in reuters and in wsj daily, no need for tinfoil to see that one coming. 

ps - everything you need to see to understand various sovereign debt crashes are in the same places every day now, betcha they play the "nobody saw it coming" on that fiasco next year as well. 

Couldn't have said it better myself. 

[rwanders]

RW, do you think you would have felt even more powerful and cunning evading them if you had convinced yourself that they were right outside looking for YOU?

Actually Don P, they were outside or inside looking for me a few times----almost had their hands on me a couple times in my wild n crazy days but, I managed to keep my cool and slipped away from them---a couple of my "co-conspirators" were snagged. It may have been more due to luck then my "cool" but, we all need a little luck occasionally. They definitely knew who I was---parked outside my door for a while and just stared at me while I watered my tomato plants. 

[bayview]

   
   
   I agree . . .

   I don't think it was much of a "conspiracy" to see the collapse of 2007-08 . . .   

   The banks were extending credit to home buyers that were no documentation/no income verification loans with balloon balances.   Causing a housing bubble that couldn't  be maintained.   

   (Our $8.00 an hour neighbor moved from a one bedroom apartment to an interest only loan on an $185,000 home with a balloon balance in 5 years.   In 5 years he couldn't refinance and the bank has the home back in their inventory.)

   Loosening/extending credit allowed rampant purchasing.   New house, new cars, big screen television, Whee!!!   We'll buy now and pay for it later . . .    The consumers became overextended and quit consuming.   No consumption = loss of employment.   Affecting all of us . . .

   What's the latest bubble?    Oil?   Precious metals?

/.

[muldoon]

twas' treasuries..   

[peternap]

Didn't need to believe in any conspiracies for the 2008 collapse, as for no one saw it coming, I believe it was talked about right here on this forum quite a bit as it played out and in depth at least the 10 months preceding it.  I cashed out 401k and bought land in 2007 because it was obvious then. 

Everything you needed to know was in reuters and in wsj daily, no need for tinfoil to see that one coming. 

ps - everything you need to see to understand various sovereign debt crashes are in the same places every day now, betcha they play the "nobody saw it coming" on that fiasco next year as well. 

Yep, we discussed it and the situation we're in now also.
Despite some of the criticism, a lot of what we discuss, turns out to be real and happening.

[ScottA]

Maybe they are reading this forum and getting ideas. 

[Windpower]

more John Perkins


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article8171.htm

[Sassy]

Just watched the whole interview.  Had seen & read bits & pieces in the past.  Lots of good info - Perkins was one of the many who opened up my eyes to what has been going on. 

Having read the books House of Saud, House of Bush  The Halliburton Agenda & a book on Enron a few yrs ago helped me to see that things aren't always as they appear.  Reading about the World Bank, Bank of International Settlements (BIS), the IMF (International Monetary Fund) & our own Federal Reserve - just one of the many central banks through out the world who use the BIS as a clearing house, confirms what Perkins says.

[sparks]

   A quote that I recall ......thought it was Shakespeare.....

  I was wrong

  Oh what a tangled web we weave,
When first we practise to deceive!

Sir Walter Scott, Marmion, Canto vi. Stanza 17.
Scottish author & novelist (1771 - 1832)


 


  sparks

[Windpower]

I am reading



Very interesting

One 'argument' that some use to 'debunk' conspiracies goes something like this

"they could never pull off something like that, there would be too many people involved and there is no way they could keep a secret -- someone would talk...."

One section is about the A-12 "Oxcart" this was the CIA financed black project that got the early version of the famous SR71 Blackbird flying.

At one point there were thousands of people working on this project or that had knowledge of it --- no one leaked a word to the public. To this day few even know that A-12 existed or that it was used in Vietnam for recon. or that one crashed and was lost at sea-- the Jack Weeks'  family did not even learn the details of his crash until 2006 (IIRC)