The tin foil hat

[peternap]

Reading some of the recent threads and seeing the responses makes me wonder about how many people think there are conspiracies and how many just blunder around with blind faith that our justice system and government are doing a fine job.

So I thought I'd start my own tin foil thread with my opinions.

List:

Is Obama an American Citizen.
Who Knows and who cares. He's there and he's bad and no one is going to dethrone him before the election.

Did we kill Osama.
Don't know and don't care.

Can the Government read my mind.
No, I'd have been arrested long ago if they could.

Is the Government out of control.
Now we get to the meat of the conspiracy issue with me.
When I worked with the Feds, they had three quarters of the businesses in the area stocked with a paid informant.
Pawn shops provide lists of items and customers to the police every week.
I wear hats because on average my picture gets taken 250 times a day. I keep mud on my license tags for the same reason.
Police have qualified immunity and in general, can get away with murder.
I have a ceramic  knife because even though I can carry a gun most places, I cannot carry a knife in many of the same places.

Do I think the government can get information about me by being in close proximity.
Yes they can and so can other criminals.
I have the wallet equivalent of a tin hat to keep my Credit Card, Drivers License, General Assembly ID and anything else with a magnetic strip from being scanned.

Do I think this post and my email is read by the Government.
Damn Skippy!

So while I may not be a believer in many of the conspiracy scares,  I also don't have any naive ideas that all is well in this country.

[bayview]

   I understand exactly how you feel!

   It's time to get an underground bunker-home, stockpiling it with food and water, guns and ammo.   We are thinking of burying a ship container and encasing it with concrete.   A steel door leading down some steps to the entry.   Maybe some sort of oxygen scrubber in case of a nuclear accident.

   Making it as self sufficient as possible.   An underground water storage tank with purification and filtering.   Using solar with a battery backup.   A 12 volt toilet with macerator so it could be easily pumped out.   My brother-in-law suggests stocking plenty of booze and cigarettes for barter.

   The bunker-home being underground will naturally be cool in the summer . . .    Our biggest concern is during the winter months.   Besides warm clothing and blankets it might get a bit chilly.

   Any suggestions on how to heat the bunker-home would be appreciated.   Obviously, we don't want to use oxygen depriving heat, like a wood fireplace.   We were thinking of using some sort of propane with a heat exchanger.   But can't seem to find anything that will work.

   BTW:   Here is a good article-blog . . .

http://sibitotique.blogspot.com/2010/11/free-online-survival-guide.html

/.

[RIjake]

Peter,
I for one agree with your points.  I believe this gummint has gotten way out of control the past 50 years and more so since 9/11.  I don't believe the problems are caused by one party or the other, matter of fact I try to distance myself from either party while the sheep put themselves in a Dem/Repub box. 

We as a country have traded our freedom for "security" and will probably end up with neither. 

I don't consider myself a conspiracy theorist or tin foil hatter just a well prepared citizen.  For me the prep bug was planted at an early age watching my Grandparents' actions and earning my Eagle Scout award, now in my mid 40's, my wife(who is like minded) and I do our best to pass this trait down to our two teenage daughters.  I carefully try to assess friends and co-workers for their stance on the issues and surround myself with like minded folk who watch out for each other.

You dropped a hint that you are/were affiliated with state government and protect your magnetic strip cards.  I'm interested what you use to do this.  Would you mind sharing or drop me a PM with what you use?

Thanks!

[peternap]

My affiliation with both the state and federal government goes back before portable strip scanner were even considered ...I just use a dollar bill sized sheet of lead foil in the bill compartment of my wallet. When folded and in my pocket, the lead surrounds all the cards.

[ScottA]

The goverment has become a self feeding creature. It desires only to stay alive and grow at any cost. Those within it have spent alot of time and energy to get where they are and want to use the power they've gained. Each administrator wants to expand his/her little empire and grow their department and thus their power. It's reached a point where over half the economy is now directly related to servicing the government and military. With so many people dependant on the system for their jobs it's no wonder they can't see what it's become. Unwinding this is most likely impossible and so the system will continue to grow and expand until it has consumed the entire economy. At that point we will have become a communist country since everyone will work for the state in some way or other. We're over half way there now. Conspiricy or not you'd have to be blind not to see it, even if you don't want to admit it.

[archimedes]

It's reached a point where over half the economy is now directly related to servicing the government and military.

[citation needed]

[StinkerBell]

Peter,

Yup!

Love Stinky

[ScottA]

[citation needed]

The admited spending is about 40% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending but you also have factor in all the jobs and spending related to meeting federal mandates such as accounting, enviromental studies, building requirements, safety etc. etc. Jobs that wouldn't exist except for requirements by government regulations. Finding exact figures for these things would be time consuming but I think it's safe to say it would add another 10% to the load on the economy. No matter how you gauge it you are still looking at very close to or a bit more than half of the total economy.

[sparks]

I prefer cotton hats when I can find them. They are a lot more comfortable and fit well.






sparks

[Grimjack]

I'd certainly have to put myself on the conspiracy theorist list- though with so much evidence are they still theories?

Is Obama a US citizen?
While I agree with Peter that it really doesn't matter, because it won't unseat him. I'd have to go with he is not, because he waited so long to release his birth  certificate, and it looks like it could be forgey.

Did we kill OBL?
I highly doubt it. When we got the Hussein boys their dead bodies were plastered all over the papers. when we got  Saddam, again pics everywhere of him being pulled out of the spider hole. Now when we "get" OBL no pics and his  body is dumped at sea less than 24hrs later? Really?

Can the Government read your mind?
No. But I do believe that their data mining is most likely as sophisticated as modern tv shows and  movies leads us to believe. we live in a surveillance society for sure.

Is the Government out of control?
without a doubt. They are in violation of almost every tenet of the Constitution, and have dumbed down the population so much that no one  cares.

Can Government get info about me by being in close proximity?
Absolutely. However most of the stuff they can get that way they can already obtain other  ways. I'm more concerned about criminal use of RFID chips than govco.  And Peter is doing the right thing to defeat it. They also sell RFID defeating wallets and passport covers on the internet.

Do I think emails are ready govco?
I think they can be. I think most likely they are auto scrubbed for key words and not reviewed by human eyes  unless they get flagged for some reason. The government would have to employ an army to read all the emails that get sent on a daily basis.

The bottom line-Your government lies to you, and it lies all the  time!

[gandalfthegrey]

   I understand exactly how you feel!

   It's time to get an underground bunker-home, stockpiling it with food and water, guns and ammo.   We are thinking of burying a ship container and encasing it with concrete.   A steel door leading down some steps to the entry.   Maybe some sort of oxygen scrubber in case of a nuclear accident.

   Making it as self sufficient as possible.   An underground water storage tank with purification and filtering.   Using solar with a battery backup.   A 12 volt toilet with macerator so it could be easily pumped out.   My brother-in-law suggests stocking plenty of booze and cigarettes for barter.

   The bunker-home being underground will naturally be cool in the summer . . .    Our biggest concern is during the winter months.   Besides warm clothing and blankets it might get a bit chilly.

   Any suggestions on how to heat the bunker-home would be appreciated.   Obviously, we don't want to use oxygen depriving heat, like a wood fireplace.   We were thinking of using some sort of propane with a heat exchanger.   But can't seem to find anything that will work.

   BTW:   Here is a good article-blog . . .

http://sibitotique.blogspot.com/2010/11/free-online-survival-guide.html

This might give you some sugestions

http://aedra.com/~sotto/shtf/safe-house-example/www.ultimatesecurehome.com/secure_home_location.htm

/.

[RIjake]

Is the Government out of control?
without a doubt. They are in violation of almost every tenet of the Constitution, and have dumbed down the population so much that no one  cares.

I CARE!!

[glenn kangiser]

I believe it is as bad as most think it is and worse.  I have had emails delayed because they had the B word in them though it was discussing WWII - I rec'd notice but no ID from the delayer.  Realized what it was when I got notice - a person had to check my mail out.

Scott has it.  Others have it.  Those who believe there is nothing going on - that Obama was voted in- that Bush was voted in - that 9-11 was by OBL - that OBL was just caught..that voters have a choice... I feel sorry for them but it likely doesn't matter whether they can see or not.  The PTB will get away with all that they can and the little people don't matter much - dead or alive.

[OlJarhead]

The goverment has become a self feeding creature. It desires only to stay alive and grow at any cost. Those within it have spent alot of time and energy to get where they are and want to use the power they've gained. Each administrator wants to expand his/her little empire and grow their department and thus their power. It's reached a point where over half the economy is now directly related to servicing the government and military. With so many people dependant on the system for their jobs it's no wonder they can't see what it's become. Unwinding this is most likely impossible and so the system will continue to grow and expand until it has consumed the entire economy. At that point we will have become a communist country since everyone will work for the state in some way or other. We're over half way there now. Conspiricy or not you'd have to be blind not to see it, even if you don't want to admit it.

We pretty much agree here except I don't think it will make it that far...I think the economy will collapse completely first.

[OlJarhead]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBn-tP2waP4&feature=related

[bayview]

I believe it is as bad as most think it is and worse.  I have had emails delayed because they had the B word in them though it was discussing WWII - I rec'd notice but no ID from the delayer.  Realized what it was when I got notice - a person had to check my mail out.

    Seems you have made the 3-letter govt agencies list . . .    Soon you may get the "interview" from the dark suited gentlemen.

/.

[ScottA]

We pretty much agree here except I don't think it will make it that far...I think the economy will collapse completely first.

Na...It will never colapse completly. It may go underground but there will always be an economy. Money may become useless if they continue printing it. I've been trying to figure out what they are up to for the last few years. I've decided that they don't know what they are doing. They know what they want to do but they don't know how to do it. Also it seems there is some fighting going on at the top. They are trying to hide it but it's becoming clear that they aren't all on the same team.

[rwanders]

 I find it interesting that so many posters in this thread see themselves as strong independent individuals, indeed as the only ones who know the "truth" about events all over the world (and usually appear in this forum with the "truth" within hours of those events). Their "truth" always involves elaborate conspiracies requiring incredible feats of cooperation and organization by very large groups of co-conspirators. Their conspiracies also require the cooperation of thousands of media outlets and individual reporters who otherwise would gladly trash their own grandmothers for a good story.

I do not maintain that both private and public organizations never attempt to cover up their actions or inactions. Those efforts are mainly notable for their failures. Governmental attempts to hide embarrassing information or even classified information are particularly ineffective---the government leaks information at a steady rate that would make the Titanic look unsinkable in comparison. Nevertheless, there are times when such efforts are successful for short periods but, they are notable because they are so few.

What really puzzles me is why all these strong, smart folks with their impeccable sources also, strangely, sound as if they (and indeed all of us) are just helpless pawns of a super competent government wielding superhuman powers over us-----if that is true, why does the government always appear to be unable to solve most of the problems they attempt---how can they be so good at conspiracies and so bumbling at everything else---can't keep the potholes filled but, elaborate conspiracies----no problem!

I must be missing something. I am not able to exercise complete control over my whole life but, the government controls even less. Over my 68 years of life I have ignored, evaded or otherwise defied the government virtually at will----truth be known, in my earlier, more reckless days, I could have spent many years in the steelbar hotel if the government had been even slightly as all-powerful as some of the posters describe. Maybe I was just lucky.

Finally, the powerful forces arrayed against us can be frustrated by lead foil in our wallets, tin foil hats, and hiding in a hole?  Surely you jest!

I intend no offense to anyone for their opinions----if they see themselves and all of us as pawns of legions of conspiracies, it must be their "truth" and our perceptions of truth do control us. If one thinks of themselves as pawns, they will live as one. If the government seems that powerful, it will be able to control them easily---the pawns will be in their holes with lead in their wallets and tinfoil on their heads.

[ScottA]

Here's the thing rwanders. It's not the governemnt. The government is a pawn. We aren't really pawns though, we are the board. Policys are put in place that cause things to happen. It's not that complicated really. Lets say I'm building a hiway and I want people to drive slower. I can build in bumps and curves to acomplish this without anyone understanding it's been done on purpose. They'll say that the guy who designed this hiway is incompetent or stupid but they'll never say I did it on purpose. Our world works the same way. If you feel better saying to yourself that it's all good and things are screwed up because the governemnt is stupid then great. Be happy. But understand the bumps aren't always by accident.

[rwanders]

If the governments are the pawns and we are the boards, who does that leave to be the chessmaster?

Maybe it's the little grey beings in their spaceship hidden on the dark side of the moon.

[rwanders]

Scott, of course everything is not "great" and not all that goes wrong is due to government stupidity. In my experience, I have witnessed, and sometimes been part of, building quite a few bumps in the road. I have seen professional engineers, architects, CEOs, Presidents and Congresses make what could be described as stupid decisions----seldom have they been deliberate----they are examples of what we all are---human beings that err, that are sometimes clueless, sometimes venal, often just a product of simple human arrogance. We humans don't need conspiracies to make even our grandest screw ups-----we do just fine being humans.

[ScottA]

Of course you are right rwanders. We all make mistakes. Who are the chessmasters? I don't need to name names but if you look closely at the top of the pile you might be able to figure it out. There are those who seem to be above the law? The same ones who seem to get richer even when the economy is trashed? Like I said they don't know what they are doing but they are pushing the pieces around on the board. If they knew what they where doing they would have won the game by now.

[Windpower]

Some quotes from "The Grand Chessboard" by Zbigniew Brzezinksi

"How America 'manages' Eurasia is critical. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world's three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa's subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania geopolitically peripheral to the world's central continent. About 75 per cent of the world's people live in Eurasia, and most of the world's physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for about three-fourths of the world's known energy resources." (p.31)

"Never before has a populist democracy attained international supremacy. But the pursuit of power is not a goal that commands popular passion, except in conditions of a sudden threat or challenge to the public's sense of domestic well-being. The economic self-denial (that is, defense spending) and the human sacrifice (casualties, even among professional soldiers) required in the effort are uncongenial to democratic instincts. Democracy is inimical to imperial mobilization." (p.35)

"The momentum of Asia's economic development is already generating massive pressures for the exploration and exploitation of new sources of energy and the Central Asian region and the Caspian Sea basin are known to contain reserves of natural gas and oil that dwarf those of Kuwait, the Gulf of Mexico, or the North Sea." (p.125)

"In the long run, global politics are bound to become increasingly uncongenial to the concentration of hegemonic power in the hands of a single state. Hence, America is not only the first, as well as the only, truly global superpower, but it is also likely to be the very last." (p.209)

"Moreover, as America becomes an increasingly multi-cultural society, it may find it more difficult to fashion a consensus on foreign policy issues, except in the circumstance of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat." (p. 211)

[glenn kangiser]

I'm with Scott and Windpower of course.  

They are not one person but they are steering the government to their benefit and always have.  Zbig's writings seem to be true to a lot of the direction things are being directed.  PNAC said we needed a "Ne Pearl Harbor".... they seem to have got what they wanted with 911.  Strange coincidence, eh?

Zbig is a number one praiser of Barry Soetoro and he says Barry is doing everything just right.  Looking forward to 4 more years.

I also do not see them as infallible but I will not pretend they are not there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igB0cwFBXEU

It is only natural that those who actively participate, have actively participated or have family in the system will feel guilty for it's failures and will want to defend it as being upright no matter what it does or what the puppet masters do with it, but I think it is that direct involvement that causes the blindness to the way it is operated and to the theft of our liberty under the guise of protection.

[peternap]

It's hard to get a brush wide enough to paint the whole house with one stroke Rewanders.

I happen to believe n local conspiracies more than large scale Federal...mostly because I'm able to prove local more often. That doesn't mean I think every Civil Servant is somehow involved.

I find lots of Police abuses and coverups. It would be wrong to use that to condemn the thousands of honest Officers in this state though.

If you accept everything as legitimate, you're a fool.

If you question everything, you're doing your job.

If you refuse to accept anything as legitimate, again, you're a fool.

I don't see anyone here as being a fool. I don't agree with every conclusion, but I applaud the effort that goes into reaching it.