Simmons - talked too much about the BP Gulf disaster -

[Sassy]

It's just another Enron, Halliburton, the S&L's & the biggie, the Federal Reserve, in my opinion.  I've studied & read books on all of them - not pretty pictures... 

I'm all for capitalism & a free market, but as John Adams said about our Republic & Constitution, also applies to corporations...

"We have no government armed in power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a religious and moral people. It is wholly inadequate for the government of any other."

[UK4X4]

Oilfield person here too.....!

Not for BP but a service company , and I have worked on BP offshore projects.

every one seems to attack the exploration company, yes they hold overall responcibility

But all the equipment and work and carried out on that well was done by "service company's"

who both carry out the work and report back to the "company man" on the rig- he is the Expo companies representative.

usually just one guy per hitch on board. he is the onsite guy who controls the service company people and monitors their performance.

he is usally an older experienced guy- but in no way an expert at everything- hence the use of service companies

Cover up - conspiracy- nah- just a sad chain of events that led to the deaths of 11 men.

Were mistakes made- yep probably- was equipment failure not given a higher importance along the way - yes probably.

BP-Shell-Total -Maersk -Exonn etc etc all work to similar safety schemes, each has some small diferences but basicly no diference.

safety is the number one concern in the industry, its concidered at all levels and for every action.

Are there still accidents yes of course........was this a bad one yes - the worst

The outcome will be even more self regulations and maybe even governement controls forced on the companies....

In the UK sector the industry lost self regulation after Piper Alpha, safety regulations were then put into government hands....

the same company safety experts simply swapped hats, as local governement did not exactly have a large contingent of sub sea safety people !


In regards to subsea oil plooms - they do exist naturally, just like the tar pit in CA and the oil seeps just offshore.


Deaths in the people who assisted in the operations/ cleanups..........yep people die everyday......i would imagine if you compared the numbers to standard per capita death rates - I don't think you'd see any diferences.


What were the issues

Cement job HAL
Well control equipment BOP cameron
Well control transocean

All three companies are well known and experienced.

Is BP large - impersonal and bottom line driven..........yep

name me a successful top company that is'nt ?

the one I work is pretty much the same ........

Is there damage control at work .....yes probably .....more though to insure good science is being followed

rather than a couple of university students in a rubber boat picking up some tanker discharge.

When the initial reports were comming out on the news - the quality was awful, with stories being sprouted left and right by people who would not tell a BOP from a space station front door lock.

anyway enough waffling and back to the conspiracy theory.


PS

those that criticize the oil industry can back up their devotion and drop using all petroleum products

welcome to the stone age !

[rwanders]

  UK4x4

Hear! Hear!  I too have had years of interaction with oil companies----my experiences are much the same as yours.

[MountainDon]

   thanks to you both

[Windpower]

You just can't make this stuff up

http://bx.businessweek.com/securities-and-exchange-comm/view?url=http%3A%2F%2Fc.moreover.com%2Fclick%2Fhere.pl%3Fr4466019476%26f%3D9791



WASHINGTON: Transocean Ltd., the world's largest offshore oil and gas drilling contractor, has given its executives pay raises, bonuses and stock options after the company's "best year" for safety, despite a deadly oil platform explosion and massive leak in the Gulf of Mexico.

"Notwithstanding the tragic loss of life in the Gulf of Mexico, we achieved an exemplary statistical safety record as measured by our total recordable incident rate and total potential severity rate," said Transocean in a filing on Friday to the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC). "As measured by these standards, we recorded the best year in safety performance in our company's history, which is a reflection on our commitment to achieving an incident-free environment, all the time, everywhere."

Nine of the 11 people killed in the April 20, 2010, explosion on the BP-leased Deepwater Horizon platform were Transocean employees. — AFP

[rwanders]

Qoute:

WASHINGTON: Transocean Ltd., the world's largest offshore oil and gas drilling contractor, has given its executives pay raises, bonuses and stock options after the company's "best year" for safety, despite a deadly oil platform explosion and massive leak in the Gulf of Mexico.

First time I've heard of a major company doing that. I worked for a large pipeline owned by several oil companies for quite a few years.  I remember a year when we had an almost perfect safety record which was good for a nice bonus for us----except we did suffer the loss of a long time employee when he drove a dump truck off the road and over a cliff.  We all lost our safety bonus that year due to that tragic accident even though it did not appear that it was due to any malfeasance by the company or other individuals.

TransOcean does not look good if the report is accurate.

[glenn kangiser]

I think we are all stuck in a system where to meet our tax and cost of living obligations, we are stuck using oil, but ... yeah... I would be for the government shutdown expanding, going to local law and order, dropping all off shore aggression and occupation for oil and empire building.

Going to simply living off of the land, barter, helping family, friends and neighbor would be great, but then again, some Bozo would decide we needed more government and things would start all over again.....

I suppose somehow there are plenty of things to keep that from actually working, but we may be forced to find out soon.  I think I am reasonably close to ready.

[considerations]

"I think I am reasonably close to ready."  I would like to have your confidence. 

Anyway, as far as seeing someone or someones "hang" for what happened on the Deepwater Horizon was not the focus of my interest.  It's just a facet of the oil industry with which I was completely unfamiliar.  I don't think accidents in any heavy industry are completely unavoidable.  I think some are. 

I see people in this county spending a lot of time pointing fingers and shouting "Off with their heads!" from a position of zero knowledge.  I want to see if I can really understand what happened on the DWH to my own satisfaction. 

Plus, there are dozens of survivors who really were heroes, some who panicked... but none of them wanted that disaster to happen.   

I doubt anyone really knows how they would react until they are wearing the moccasins...

There is a class action suit being brought by some of the survivors, I think at least BP, Transocean, and Halliburton are named as defendants.  That will be an interesting case to follow, as some of the anecdotal statements made early on do not seem to match the sworn testimony from the USCG hearings.   

BP and at least Halliburton, maybe Transocean represent so much revenue and national security (think oil and natural gas) for this country, that it is doubtful that anyone will be flayed alive in public by the feds.  They save that for the little companies who cannot afford to defend themselves.

[rwanders]

We have been and will surely be treated to more Congressional Hearings on the whole sad story.

I hope we all realize that those hearings will add little to clarify the chain of events, actions, inactions and systemic fault lines that litter the sorry story of disaster. Like all such oversight committee performances, they are the american version of soviet show trials.

i grew up on Capitol Hill in DC. My stepfather was a US Congressman and a Chairman of such committees so I have direct experience which informs my opinion of them. Their purpose is not to hear evidence in the manner of a Court and to render a "just" decision, their purpose is to put on a performance, a "show". Their audience is primarily the media. Each committee member has his/her role to play and each person testifying also has an assigned role. The witnesses are extensively deposed and rehearsed by the committee staff prior to the hearing----a wise witness will listen carefully to the staff and will play their role faithfully---the staff does not baldly tell you how to play but, your role will be made clear if you are sensitive to the arc of their questions---you will be either a "villain" or a "hero" and god help you if you do not learn and recite your role. Uncooperative "villains" in particular will be severely pummeled by the committee. I have advised such witnesses prior to a hearing and, some have listened and survived fairly well. Others have not and have had their heads handed to them. Believe me, these committees (most members are attorneys and others are coached by staff attorneys) can make Mother Theresa look like Jack the Ripper and worse if you cross them. Play your role, look and sound properly chastened and patiently respond to their posturing, cleverly disguised as questions, and you will leave, bruised but still standing----fight them and your own mother may be ready to disown you when they are through.  

The scene in the Godfather when Michael Corleone makes fools out of the committee is pure Hollywood-----doesn't happen. Like all good attorneys, the members never ask a question they don't already know the answer to.

[glenn kangiser]

Wow... Funny but I completely agree with you... I guess that is why they call them oversight committees.   They look overtop of the problems but fail to see or do anything about them.

A covert ops person told me the same thing.  It's all a play for public entertainment, and if you do not play properly you are not in a good position to say the least... that includes new congress people who want to change the good ol' boy system I understand.

[IronRanger]

I doubt they wanted it to happen, but the dispersal of corexit shows me they're more worried about money than morality.

It's all a play for public entertainment...

Just like security theater.

[glenn kangiser]

Lots of fortunes to be made for those invested in Corexit.  It's not being used because it is safe.  Types of EM have been proven to do the job safely and are good for the environment.  Follow the money.  Not a conspiracy theory, but a conspiracy.

[UK4X4]

The Hindu
Online edition of India's National Newspaper
Monday, Apr 04, 2011

mmmmmm a worldly trustworthy newspaper ?

not so sure !

Does the industry pay out for safety performance - yes !

Each member of management has QHSE objectives and a percentage of salary against it..................if their objective was less than 15 deaths in the whole year- yep they probably got paid.

The rig manager would probably have had < 1 major injury in the year,  so if he survived he did not get his.

Drilling rigs usually have the highest compensation and benifits through QHSE performance

Right or wrong people have to be given achievable targets -some years I do well- others not so good


Globally in our company the major causes of death is Heart attack- Driving - rigs and field

Driving was top but due to draconian regulations -spies in the cabs and speed limiters
natural causes is now the top scorer
To have rigs and field work as number three actually shows you that the safety systems in place work.

We will never have zero fatalities, we can only try and limit the quantity and severity.

Rigs operate 24/7/360 days of the year in the most inhospitable climates and conditions in the world

I am quite proud of my industry and its safety record- I know that my company goes out of its way to provide both the top training- protective gear

and most importantly the permission for EVERY employee to stop a job if he feels in anyway unsafe

Management support this through all levels !

[Windpower]

"The Hindu
Online edition of India's National Newspaper
Monday, Apr 04, 2011

mmmmmm a worldly trustworthy newspaper ?

not so sure !"

   

google it

Transocean Safety bonuses

Advanced search About 1,010,000 results (0.08 seconds

[UK4X4]

wether or not the Hindu paper was the only version- it was the one that was linked and certainly not known for high quality reporting

and I did still explain why bonuses were still paid

[Windpower]

"certainly not known for high quality reporting"


on what basis do you make this assertion ?


"and I did still explain why bonuses were still paid"


why of course, Transocean only killed 11 men and helped cause the largest oil spill disaster in world history --- 

they certainly deserve those "safety" bonuses

[glenn kangiser]

I still don't see any earning of bonuses as per the start of this posting..... I am sure Simmons was right and the leaking of crude from the failed bore is not stopped including coming from miles away through earth fractures opened by pressure from the failed bore..  We are long from seeing the end of this.

I am a well driller and understand the problems with trying to seal up a fractured unconsolidated formation under the kind of pressure this well had.  It is impossible.    It is like trying to glue miles of broken earth back together with a small amount of concrete sent down a leaking bore.  Add to that oil under thousands of pounds of pressure from the other side blowing the seal away.  I also subcontracted welding on oil drilling rigs including ARCO.  

I say bonuses are not earned for the job they did, but looking at it another way... bonuses could have been earned for the quality of the coverup and getting the public to believe the problem is largely over.

A first class performance there and well deserving of the bonuses....

[UK4X4]

"certainly not known for high quality reporting"


on what basis do you make this assertion ?

even my ex Indian employees watched BBC world,CNN etc and on the net- nothing more


"and I did still explain why bonuses were still paid"


why of course, Transocean only killed 11 men and helped cause the largest oil spill disaster in world history --- 

they certainly deserve those "safety" bonuses

I never said they were deserved- or wether it was right

just how the system works

[glenn kangiser]

You got it... that is how the system works [ouch]

[IronRanger]

...just-released confidential BP and government emails...

    * The government is keeping scientists away from "ground zero" of the oil spill and - for that reason - scientists cannot accurately measure the size of the oil spill

    * When university scientists found underwater oil plumes, the government said shut up, don't tell anyone ... and then tried to discredit them

    * BP and government representatives are still keeping scientists and reporters away from areas impacted by oil

    * BP is controlling university research, and the professor who downplayed the oil spill is being called a "shill" by a fellow professor

    * BP and the government famously declared that most of the oil had disappeared, when it hadn't

    * The government did everything in its power to help cover up the severity of the spill

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/04/internal-emails-confirm-that-bp-and.html

[glenn kangiser]

Simply not reporting the problem eliminates it.

http://switchboard.nrdc.org/blogs/rkistner/residents_say_dead_turtles_rot.html