Author Topic: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar  (Read 3274 times)

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Offline RainDog

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Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« on: October 20, 2009, 05:52:29 AM »
 Sirs,

 I'm new here, posted for the first time just yesterday after an extended period of lurking, but I've been looking at Kevin's 16x24 shed roofed building on the gallery page ( http://www.countryplans.com/12x18.html ) and I just can't stop thinking about it.

 What I'd love to build would be something similar, but twice the length with a 6x20 bump out set midway into the back for a bathroom and utility room. I really love the modern lines of the shed roof structure. Would save me some plumbing as opposed to the floorplan I had in mind, as utility room, bathroom, and kitchen would be more closely grouped, among other advantages.

 Now... here's my dilemma: Looking through the forum I notice that when this type of roof is brought up for a residence, it seems to me that like people almost immediately state their preference for gabled designs, and then the thread kind of goes off on a tangent. I've been bowing to what I've perceived as consensus, as the members of this board obviously know a good deal more than I do about house building, and planned a gabled style roof myself based on the 20x30 one-story plan, but can't help wondering "Why"?

 Is there some factor that y'all are aware of, in either the construction, maintenance, or anything else, that recommends against building a shed roofed permanent dwelling such as the one I mentioned, or is is just stylistic preference?

 Thanks a lot for your time, and I appreciate any thoughts on the subject that you may send my way.

 Yours,
 Parks
NE OK

Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2009, 06:07:00 AM »
Mostly style preference, but a bit more room for a loft or extra usable space.  A loft could be put on the high side of a shed roof house also. 

I would say that the gable is predominant as it is the most common kind of house, but if you like a shed roof then by all means, build it.  It is most practical in the narrower size houses also due to readily available sizes of lumber.

The little house plans go to 14 wide.  Possibly John can give you suggestions for a 16 wide shed roof modification.  Length modifications are easy - just continue the same increments and foundation- width takes a bit more consideration on loading.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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Offline RainDog

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2009, 06:14:45 AM »

 Hi, Glenn. Is someone paying you to tell me what I want to hear?  ;)

 Seriously, though, 16' width is what I'd like to do. Framed like Kevin's, but as I said twice the length, with the 6' bump-out in the back for bath and utility rooms. I know I'm getting into mobile home dimensions here, but I still think it'd look great.

  As an addendum to my first post, I thought I'd mention that although ease and economy of construction are high on my list of priorities in the build, they aren't particularly moving factors in why I'd like a shed roof. Mostly it's just my preference as far as appearance.

 Now, that said, if it were to cost substantially more or be especially difficult to do this alone or with limited help, that certainly would be a deal killer.

 Thanks tons.
NE OK

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2009, 06:52:51 AM »
Even with no loft involved, and not getting aesthetics into the puzzle, some like the gable roof better than a shed roof because of snow loads. Most shed roofs I see are rather low pitches as well. That can affect the type of roofing material that is suitable for use.

A shed roof for a given width of building (with no center internal rafters supports) will require deeper rafters than those required for a gable roof. That said, that's not necessarily bad as the deeper rafters will provide more space for more insulation. Some who build gable roofed cabins with cathedral ceilings will increase the rater size over what is needed or strength or that very reason.

For example a 16 foot wide span with gable roof could use 2x6 rafters, whereas the shed roof under the same conditions would require 2x10 rafters.

I think in the end you should build what you like. However, one selection may influence some other choice for design or materials.





Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2009, 07:04:33 AM »

 Hi, Glenn. Is someone paying you to tell me what I want to hear?  ;)

 Seriously, though, 16' width is what I'd like to do. Framed like Kevin's, but as I said twice the length, with the 6' bump-out in the back for bath and utility rooms. I know I'm getting into mobile home dimensions here, but I still think it'd look great.

  As an addendum to my first post, I thought I'd mention that although ease and economy of construction are high on my list of priorities in the build, they aren't particularly moving factors in why I'd like a shed roof. Mostly it's just my preference as far as appearance.

 Now, that said, if it were to cost substantially more or be especially difficult to do this alone or with limited help, that certainly would be a deal killer.

 Thanks tons.

Paying me.... what a concept.... [waiting]  :)

Shed roofs can get a bit high on one side to get adequate slope especially as they get wider, but I don't see them being  more costly or difficult.  The design is actually simpler.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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Offline RainDog

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2009, 07:44:37 AM »

 MountainDon: Low pitch is right. I believe Kevin's was about 3/12. Whenever I draw rough drafts I use 4/12. I'm in NE Oklahoma, and though it does snow here every winter, when it manages to stick it's front page news in the local daily. Schools close and teenagers make money driving around pulling cars out of ditches. A dusting of snow on the road and it's a disaster zone. I haven't checked out local requirements, but I'm hoping that 4/12 would be sufficient. 2x10 rafters would be cool with me. Looks like that's what Kevin used, from what I can tell.

 Glenn: Unless I'm wrong, which experience tells me is usually the case, a 16' span with the back wall at 8' tall puts the front wall at a height of just over 14.5', which would give me a lot of space to cool and heat, but I hope to at least recover some of that cost with the orientation of the house along with enough glass on the front wall to take advantage of passive solar.

 I don't know if there would be any real problem involved with this, but I'd like to just keep that roof line going down past the back wall over the 6'x20' bump-out. That would put the back-back wall height at 6', but since bathroom vanity and toilet would be on that wall... I haven't thought it through, obviously. Ideally it would still provide enough headroom.

 Thanks a lot for your input. Means a lot to me.

 Parks
NE OK

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2009, 08:14:33 AM »
4:12 is adequate pitch or many designs. That's all our gable roofed home in the suburbs is.

I don't know if there would be any real problem involved with this, but I'd like to just keep that roof line going down past the back wall over the 6'x20' bump-out. That would put the back-back wall height at 6', but since bathroom vanity and toilet would be on that wall... I haven't thought it through, obviously. Ideally it would still provide enough headroom.


Are you subject to meeting the requirements of any building codes?

For a bathroom the minimum ceiling height over a fixture is 6'8". Ditto for height above shower or tub with showerhead, according to the IRC.

Even without the need to meet code it might be something to think about.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2009, 08:23:39 AM »
....which would give me a lot of space to cool and heat, but I hope to at least recover some of that cost with the orientation of the house along with enough glass on the front wall to take advantage of passive solar.

The front wall is the higher wall? Passive solar gain is wonderful in cool and cold weather. The same can not be said in warm and hot weather. An exterior shade of some kind could be required to minimize heat gain in the summer. That may be difficult to achieve with windows high up on the taller wall with a shed roof.

On a gable roof home that can be achieved with the proper sizing of the eves overhang. Both ScottA and myself sized our eves to prevent the summer sun from hitting the windows. The lower angle of the winter sun is allowed to hit the glass. Our entire south wall is shaded top to bottom in the summer. At this time of year we have the lower 2/3 of the glass exposed to direct sun. Later in the winter nearly the entire glass area is directly lit by the sun. We mainly wanted to prevent the summer sun from hitting the glass.

Speaking of glass low-e glass is worth the investment. If in a code area it may also be required to meet any energy code in place.

Just more things to consider.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Offline RainDog

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2009, 08:40:21 AM »

 MountainDon: This is exactly the kind of practical considerations that I need to hear. You're right, the overhang at that roof height and at that angle would have to be prohibitively extreme in order to keep the summer sun off the windows. I'd actually not thought about putting windows up high on the wall, just having abundant glass at ordinary height on that southern facing wall. I've seen slatted exterior sunshades built on rollers, like sliding barn doors, to cover windows and sliding glass doors in structures like that, but that's just another expense and another hassle on top of everything else.

 The 20 foot wide house with low pitch gabled roof and cathedral ceilings idea just went up a notch or two in my mental tally board.

 Oh, and thanks for the minimum ceiling height info too. That tips things a bit too.

 Thanks a lot,
 Parks
NE OK

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2009, 08:59:12 AM »
Awnings, either traditional canvas or aluminum or owner built wood could be used to block the warm weather sun and yet allow winter sun through. On the deluxe end a folding arm canvas awning could be employed.



I built exterior window covers for our west facing windows down here in the desert. They are removable and can be easily knocked out from the inside or outside in case of emergency. They have finger width spacing between the boards to allow light into the room. I take them of in the fall and put them back up in spring. They made a difference to the heat in those two rooms. That's an old pre metal roof picture. The cacti are a lot bigger now too.



I had a better close up image someplace but can't locate it right now. I also built a redwood awning or the south facing kitchen window, but have no photo.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Offline RainDog

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2009, 09:18:29 AM »

 MountainDon,

 Well, my forehead is quite sore from all the slapping I've been giving it. Sometimes I wonder if I've got early onset Alzheimer's or something.

 An awning, of course. Thank you.

 Now I need to figure out how to address that ceiling height issue.

 What I'd had in mind was the 16x44 main building, with a bedroom on either end and living space/kitchen in the center, then the 6x20 extension in the back, midway, which would contain bathroom and utility room. I do not want to increase the height of the entire structure just to accommodate the bath. Need to stick that bath and utility room somewhere else, accessible to both bedrooms and living area, preferably without breaking the roof up and creating possible leak points (I'm having a really bad experience right now with my roof leaking at a dormer window).

 Double thanks for your help.

 Parks 
NE OK

Offline RainDog

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2009, 01:24:18 PM »

 Okay, okay. I know this is getting old, so I'll just hit y'all up once more today and cross my fingers in hopes of someone glancing into this thread at this point.

 If I were to change my calculations to a 3/12 roof pitch, keep the rear wall of the 16x48 at 8', and change the rear 6x20 bump out to 5x20, which would still fit a tub in the bath, that would put me at 12 feet of height at the front wall and just barely above 6'8" at the inside of the rear wall. Kills two birds with one stone, the high ceiling in the front as well as the too low ceiling height in the back. All from changing roof pitch to 3/12 from 4/12.

 Any obvious problems with that?

 I should perhaps mention that at this point I'm planning a full slab foundation, and will acid etch it, maybe with some pattern, as the main living area floor. Probably put down some kind of carpet in the two bedrooms. I know those floors would be cold, but I've got an enormous Persian rug I can toss down in the main living area, so I think I could survive it. I've seen examples on the web of homes where this has been done, and also seem to recall someone here on this board doing it and expressing no regrets. Definitely looks great, from what I've seen.

 It's really been nice bouncing this stuff off y'all, and having you point out the weaker points in my basic plans. This has mostly been bouncing around in my head without outside influence or review for quite some time, aside from rather brief meetings with local contractors, so I'm finding this board to be a great help. I've found quite a few answers by reading past threads, as well as discovering a lot of questions that I might not have even considered about until the 11th hour. Great community you've got here. I am very impressed.

 Good day!
 Parks
NE OK

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2009, 01:47:18 PM »
3:12 should work, but you may have special installation instructions for some types of rooing to keep the roofing material warranty in effect when you are at or below 3:12 pitch


On that 5 foot dimension for the tub, don't forget about the wall framing thickness plus cement board, whatever, etc inside the bathroom space.  Before drawing up the final plan and pouring the slab I'd check the rough in dimensions and installation method advised by the manufacturer.


Concrete slab with acid colored finish can be attractive. Insulate the slab according to the energy codes and they are not as cold as slabs used to be.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Offline RainDog

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2009, 02:00:48 PM »

 Thank you so much for your time, MountainDon and Glenn. I owe y'all one.  c*

 Parks
NE OK

Offline HomeschoolMom

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #14 on: October 20, 2009, 02:49:06 PM »
Parks, I want a shed roof house too!  But I want to berm 2 or 3 sides of it.   ;D  I have looked at a sips roof.  They come in 24 foot lengths so I could easily span a 18 foot wide building.
Michelle
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Wanting an earth bermed hybrid timberframe...just need some inheritance  ;)  Will never have another mortgage again!

Offline RainDog

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #15 on: October 20, 2009, 03:17:35 PM »

 Hi, Homeschoolmom.

 I too considered SIPS, for walls and ceiling, and called a local manufacturer to get a ballpark idea of cost. I was told on the phone that a loose way to figure it would be $20. per sq. ft, which I thought staggering.

 Hasn't crossed my mind since.  ;D
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Offline HomeschoolMom

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #16 on: October 20, 2009, 03:57:55 PM »
Yeah, I have done zero research!  Figure I won't know my budget until the time comes.  So I have like plan A-Z   ;)
Michelle
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Married to Jason, Self Employed

Wanting an earth bermed hybrid timberframe...just need some inheritance  ;)  Will never have another mortgage again!

Offline Kevin

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #17 on: October 20, 2009, 04:31:21 PM »
Parks, if you have any questions on my cabin just email me.
Kevin

Offline RainDog

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #18 on: October 20, 2009, 05:07:27 PM »

 Oh, Kevin... you asked for it, prepare for the flood!

 Just kidding, but I do have a few questions, definitely. Thanks so much for your offer, and I'll be writing in a day or two.

 Have a great night,
 Parks
NE OK

Offline poppy

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2009, 08:55:38 AM »
Dag nam it Parks, now you have me wanting to play with a shed roof design.  d*

Since my cabin build is on a north facing slope of about 3:12, it would make some practical sense to put the high side of a shed roof on the south for solar gain and still leave room for a loft.  Summer shading is not an issue since the cabin is surronded by woods.

It would mean a whole different approach to the timber frame, but what the heck, the design is fluid anyway.

The truth be known, the cabin will probably still end up with a gable roof, but I enjoy the challenge of a different design.  ;)

Offline waggin

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2009, 09:18:30 AM »
Count me in on the crowd vascillating between shed & gable roof designs for my planned 12'x12' shed/cabin.  On one hand the advantages are..., and on the other hand....    d*  (That's me in analysis to paralysis mode!)
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Offline RainDog

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Re: Kevin's Shed Roof Cabin and Similar
« Reply #21 on: October 21, 2009, 10:10:53 AM »

 Believe me, guys, I've got a major case of paralysis over this simple and basic issue. It's a little embarrassing. Kind of like not getting dressed in the morning because I can't decide on what to wear, or something.

 Well, okay... it's not THAT bad.

 It looks like I'm going to have to decide very soon between John's 20x30 cottage plan, extended, or something very like Kevin's shed roof. The house we're in now may have a buyer. When it goes, we'll be in an RV, me, wife, and 11 year old, until I've got something livable up. The procrastination period I've been enjoying is quickly coming to a close.

 I wrote Kevin, hopefully he's still at the address listed on the gallery page of his project. Hopefully his experiences, good or bad, will help swing me.

 Y'all have a good day, and I'll talk to ya later,
 Parks
NE OK