Author Topic: Remote Cabin Security  (Read 6797 times)

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Offline Minicup28

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Remote Cabin Security
« on: September 07, 2008, 05:00:04 PM »
With the approach of our first hunting season with our new cabin I was wonder if there are any recomendations for security systems for monitoring during our absence? We do not have power so it would have to be 12VDC powered or inverted from that to 110AC. The 35 acre parcel has been posted for years by the former absentee owner but they never saw the property, so it has become popular for local hunting. This will be the first time a cabin has been present during turkey an deer season. I have met all the neighbors within 2-3 properties but they tell me that there is a continual presence of unknown PU trucks &r ATV's around the area. Suggestions?
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Offline MountainDon

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2008, 05:12:41 PM »
Start with signage. Lots of clearly visible signs stating private property, no hunting, etc..

Next, do you want notification when some one trespasses or simply pictures of the past event.

Game cameras can be used to take pictures, but you have to go retrieve/download the images. They may provide information that can be used to prosecute, they may not.

Short of being there to enforce the no trespassing there's not much else you can do. How about those neighbors? Any of them willing to help police the area?

Big resident dogs work, but they need food, water, and so on.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Offline Minicup28

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2008, 05:27:59 PM »
I have tried a game camera moved around to a different location each week. An inexpensive one from Cabela's but all I get is 100+ picrures of reflections from the sun off the cabin or movng tree brances from the wind. The property is well posted all around the  boundry and along obvious trails. But they have been there for years and ignored. It would not be wise to come down hard at first, I want to get an idea of what the general traffic is. Then if there is some kind of incident or damage there is some record of past intrusion. We go there every weekend and do retrieve the images, Prosecuting is probably out of the question, I'd just like to know who and when to get an idea if there is a problem or if I show up some weekend with bullet holes all over, where did they come from.
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Offline NM_Shooter

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2008, 08:11:58 PM »
I would think it would be good to be on the property for at least the opening weekend, and make sure that you introduce yourself to trespassers and indicate that they are not welcome. 

When you are not there, can you put a loud radio on a 12V system timer to make some noise at your cabin?  I know that as a kid (and a trespasser) i would stay way away from anything that seemed even remotely lived in.  I think some noise would be one of your best allies.

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Offline MountainDon

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2008, 08:12:17 PM »
Being there at season start would be good as Frank suggested.

I forgot to ask about whether or not there is a gate. A solid gate can make it more difficult to drive in. That is of course if there are fences or too many trees along the boundaries.  And those are not proof against a determined trespasser. We're lucky that way.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Offline muldoon

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2008, 08:46:43 PM »
Start by calling the game warden, in fact get him on speed dial on your cell phone.  Explain your the land owner.  (He will instantly listen at this because your not a leaser).  Tell him your trying to establish a homestead and have a problem with tresspassers and pochers.  If you detect something on the camera, let him deal with it.  If you show up on Friday evening and see trucks, call him before confronting anyone.  Aside from that, I would always keep a sidearm on my person when out there.  (I do as well even though I have not had problems, it just makes sense). 

Also consider the ideas in

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=4244.0

Offline Squirl

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2008, 06:06:50 AM »
Reading your post, it looks like the signs are years old and posted by the previous owner.  Large new signs are a signal to people that something has changed.  They are very cheap and easy to put in.  If there is a signal to people that the property is being maintained and homesteaded now, it will deter some, but not all.

I do not know your land.  The most likely places of ingress and egress should be posted/fenced.  A 4'x8' piece of OSB costs around $7.  This can be cut into 8 2'x2' signs.  This is clearly visible to anyone. One 2x3 ($1.50) should be more than enough to hold this.  A box of screws or nails would be good for the project ($6). The last thing needed would be a can of fouresant paint and a can of dark paint for the background to make it stand out ($10).  I have made plenty of these in the past.  Just cut a 45 degree point in the post.  Pound it in and attach the sign.  If you have more than eight points of ingress and egress to the property, you may have a problem keeping people from trespassing.  So for around $35 everyone coming in will know that you are there and things are different now.  If they go beyond that, they just don't care.

Offline John_M

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2008, 06:32:39 AM »
Great idea Squirl.

I agree that you can only do so much.  Sometimes I worry that if I create this fortress, it may show that I am hiding something and almost make someone wonder "what are they hiding in there?"

If someone wants to get in, they are going to get in. Its sad to think that way, but there is really only so much you can do.  Think of the greatest robberies we have had in our recent history.  They made a movie about stealing the Declaration of Independance.  I know it was a movie but it shows what people will go to to steal things.

I think the best idea is to keep your interior simple, with nothing to make them want to get in.

As crazy as it seems, a friend of mine has a cabin and he never locks the door.  He has nothing in there but a fridge with some food and some simple furnishings and some clothes.  Figures its cheaper to replace any of those things than to install a broken window or replace a door.  He has had hardly any problems.

I know that is extreme and most of us don't think that way...but it works for him.

Making friends with your neighbors is good too.  The more eyes the better.

...life is short...enjoy the ride!!

Offline harry51

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2008, 07:05:17 AM »
It would be good to learn exactly what constitutes proper "No Trespassing" notification in your area. Some jurisdictions require signs only at entry points, others require a sign of a certain size at certain intervals along the property lines all the way around to be legally and enforcably posted.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
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Offline MountainDon

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2008, 07:53:29 AM »

As crazy as it seems, a friend of mine has a cabin and he never locks the door.  He has nothing in there but a fridge with some food and some simple furnishings and some clothes.  Figures its cheaper to replace any of those things than to install a broken window or replace a door.  He has had hardly any problems.

As has been said, if someone wants in they will get in.  :(  I can't quite bring myself to go that route although I have given it lots of thought. Repairing a kicked in door jamb is a PITA; ditto replacing a window. And that doesn't even consider weather damage that might result after having a window broken in.

A locked door will keep out the idly curious, it may remove or reduce the temptation to take something.  ???

I did install the deadbolt strike plate without the three inch long screws that go into the framing... thinking that if someone wants to kick it in they will, and only having the 3/4 inch screws may save some work on my part.   ???  And the locked door will keep out the id;ly curious.

Other than building a concrete bunker with heavy steel doors and window covers there is no way to be totally secure.

Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Offline Squirl

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2008, 09:40:37 AM »
It would be good to learn exactly what constitutes proper "No Trespassing" notification in your area. Some jurisdictions require signs only at entry points, others require a sign of a certain size at certain intervals along the property lines all the way around to be legally and enforcably posted.

That is a good point.  Along those same lines, you could simply buy a bunch of brand new orange/red/yellow signs from the local hunting supply store. Post it along the trees (if you have them).  It is an indication to people that the land is no longer abandoned.  You will find that many of the people that may have been using you land recently probably aren't bad/dishonest people.  They probably just saw it as abandoned and wanted to use it.

 If you want to go so far you could easily build a small gate for whatever roads are going into the property.  It will tell people driving in that you are serious. A simple gate is a treated 4x4 posts on each side of the road ($10).  You will need two hinges per side ($12).  The gate is simply made of 4 treated 2x4s ($12.00) and a latch with lock ($8).  I don't know how wide any roads would be so I will just use a hypothetical.  Cut one 2x4 the length to the center of the road.  Then cut the other 2"x4"x8' in half and use one 4' piece as the vertical piece to match the post and then just make a 45 degree cut on each of the corners of the last piece.  Use the left over screws from the signs you built and screw it all together.  Try and find hinges that will extend over both pieces of wood at the joint. Attach the latch at the center were the two piece meet.  Will this gate stop someone that is determined to get in?  Not on your life.  But it will get someone’s attention.

I built many of these when working on a farm.  It signaled to people which roads they could drive on and which were off limits without permission.  If they wanted to get by they would have at least have to get out of their vehicle and ask.  Most people would not risk damaging their vehicle to drive through, even if they had a beat up old pickup.  I have had some people use a simple chain or wire for gate.  I would recommend against this.  Sure you would save a little money and effort.  But the risk of injury or damage to someone is much greater.  Some would say, well it is the individuals fault for trespassing.  But if someone was coming through at night on an ATV or snowmobile, I doubt that the law would look at it the same if the person was paralyzed or killed because they made a wrong turn.  A few of the people I knew that did that were injured by their own gates.

Offline MaineRhino

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2008, 01:55:01 PM »
Cabela's now sells a trail camera with cellular phone capability. It's expensive, with a service plan, but you can have pics sent to your email or phone within 45 seconds.

Offline firefox

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2008, 06:22:46 PM »
Sign suggestion:

Warning this house is guarded with shotgun traps.
Please check to see that you have the name and telephone
of next of kin on person before entering

The other suggestion is to have good recordings of a mountainlion
scream. Locate a few triggers around the land and some cheap boom boxes with casette
cartridges or the modern equivalent.

Also might help to have a few simple exibits of voodo trinkets spread around.

And last but not least, get some stuff that smells like skunk spray, and have a simple metering dispenser in
several locations near the entrance. Just enough so that they are sure to get a good strong whiff upon entering.

Hope these at least entertain if not help.
Bruce
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Offline MountainDon

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2008, 06:26:52 PM »
It would be good to learn exactly what constitutes proper "No Trespassing" notification in your area.

Excellent point Harry. Under New Mexico statute...



30-14-6. No trespassing notice; sign contents; posting; requirement; prescribing a penalty for wrongful posting of public lands.

A.     The owner, lessee or person lawfully in possession of real property in New Mexico, except property owned by the state or federal government, desiring to prevent trespass or entry onto the real property shall post notices parallel to and along the exterior boundaries of the property to be posted, at each roadway or other way of access in conspicuous places, and if the property is not fenced, such notices shall be posted every five hundred feet along the exterior boundaries of such land.   

B.     The notices posted shall prohibit all persons from trespassing or entering upon the property, without permission of the owner, lessee, person in lawful possession or his agent. The notices shall:   

(1)     be printed legibly in English;   

(2)     be at least one hundred forty-four square inches in size;   

(3)     contain the name and address of the person under whose authority the property is posted or the name and address of the person who is authorized to grant permission to enter the property;   

(4)     be placed at each roadway or apparent way of access onto the property, in addition to the posting of the boundaries; and   

(5)     where applicable, state any specific prohibition that the posting is directed against, such as "no trespassing," "no hunting," "no fishing," "no digging" or any other specific prohibition.   

C.     Any person who posts public lands contrary to state or federal law or regualtion [regulation] is guilty of a petty misdemeanor.   


« Last Edit: September 10, 2008, 07:39:06 PM by MountainDon »
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2008, 07:20:29 PM »
I  like the one I use.



I know --- you are not that radical.   d* [crz]
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Offline MountainDon

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2008, 07:32:37 PM »
An interesting thing I noted under the NM statute is the 144 sq inch size. Pretty much all the signs I see in the stores and being posted aren't that large. Nor do most have the name of the contact person. Except for my forest ranger neighboring land owner. But his signs aren't large enough either.

However, I doubt that would really be a factor if you were going after a trespasser. However, I'm going to look for larger signs.
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Offline muldoon

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2008, 07:44:38 PM »
if your going to make a sign, might as well make it a good one....

REDNECK HOME SECURITY SYSTEM

1. Go to Goodwill and buy a pair of men's used size 14-16 work boots.

2. Place them on your front porch, along with a copy of Guns & Ammo
magazine.

3. Put a few giant dog dishes next to the boots and magazine.

4. Leave a note on your door that read:

Hey Bubba,
Big Jim, Duke and Slim and I went for more ammunition. Back in an hour. Don't mess with the pit bulls - they attacked the mailman this morning and messed him up real bad. I don't think Killer took part in it, but it was hard to tell from all the blood. Anyway, I locked all four of 'em in the house.  Better wait outside til I get back.

Cooter

Offline desimulacra

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2010, 04:40:03 AM »
lol muldoon that should work. Reminds me of one day riding my bike and pulled in deserted driveway to relieve myself. It was very rural and there we the grown up remains of a old rock house and garage. There was a sign that read "Whatever is here is not worth your life" I was not there long :)
West Tennessee

Online rick91351

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2010, 06:51:01 AM »
As far as gates go I have seen them tore out with a truck, cut out with a torch, the gate left but the fence tore down.  I sort of like the idea of just after the locked gate with the no trespassing signs spike strips hidden just good enough maybe by pine needles or sand or a few shoves of dirt over the top.     
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Offline Dallas2build

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2010, 07:08:52 AM »
I think the best idea is to keep your interior simple, with nothing to make them want to get in.

As crazy as it seems, a friend of mine has a cabin and he never locks the door.  He has nothing in there but a fridge with some food and some simple furnishings and some clothes.  Figures its cheaper to replace any of those things than to install a broken window or replace a door.  He has had hardly any problems.

Making friends with your neighbors is good too.  The more eyes the better.

I haven't built yet, but I know all the folks with cabins in my area.  We've all exchanged phone numbers and have agreed to do a drive by when we are close to each others place.  About two months ago I was driving by one of the neighbors (about a mile away) cabin and noticed the door open on the generator house.  Went and checked it out and someone had taken his extra gas can.  His cabin isn't far from a main logging road and is only about 200 yards behind his gate.  I figure someone just ran out of gas and was checking the local cabins. 

Leaving the door unlocked is pretty much standard practice in our area.  The last time a cabin was broken into in the area it was locked and they never did figure out what if anything they took.  Since they've been left unlocked there have been no issues.

Offline Dallas2build

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2010, 07:39:48 AM »
I sort of like the idea of just after the locked gate with the no trespassing signs spike strips hidden just good enough maybe by pine needles or sand or a few shoves of dirt over the top.     
Just my thoughts, but that seems like a real good way to guarantee some damage to your cabin if someone breaks in.  It just seems like it would infuriate the thieves, thugs or vandales that broke through your gate and make them destroy your property.  You could even unknowingly start some kind of vengeful war of sorts with them.   

A guy once built a nice cabin on a lake close to here.  It was on a tiny piece of private property on the back side of the lake and very remote as there literaly wasn't another cabin or house for 40 miles.  The land was surrounded by national forest and corp of engineer property and overlooked the lake from a bluff top about 1,200 feet above the water.  Breath taking is how I would describe it.  He built a nice cabin with all the ammenities.  Then word got around on it and how he had it so secure, with gates and cameras, etc...  He did have a nice well built gate that was on a mountainside road with no way around.  Straight down on one side of the gate and basically straight up on the other side.  The gate was massive and I bet it was quiet a site when they pulled it up, cut into little pieces with a cutting torch and left it laying beside the road. (I've seen the pieces that didn't get pushed off of the bluff laying there)  Now, years later the cabin is in ruin as the vandals never stopped going up regularly and vandalizing the cabin until he quit repairing it.  They actually took it apart piece by piece, board by board and what is left standing is full of bullet holes.  They even took out the kitchen cabinets, shower inclosure, toilet and destoyed and burned them in the yard, etc...  Its really sad as it is one of the most beautiful places I have ever been.

Offline Onkeludo2

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2010, 08:31:52 AM »
Lots of interesting responses here.  I have, non-backwoods, experience with a couple of these.

I had a convertible for a few years.  Traditional security system, unlocked doors and NOTHING visible in the interior of the car at all times...this includes a stereo with a removable face.  The cost of repairing a slashed top was considerably more than people stealing...nothing.

The other one is the muddy boots on the front porch.  I work out of town or out of the country most of the time.  Those boots and an old farm pickup in the driveway was usually enough to keep people driving on.  If they got close to the house, the sound of a 90# Newfie (boy did that teddy bear sound mean) and our other smaller dog was usually enough to keep people away.  At the same house, we left the doors unlocked for the first 6 years my wife and I lived there together...I never locked to doors for the 6 years before she moved in.  This house is in a safe neighborhood but it is bordered on two sides by the two highest crime neighborhoods in Tulsa.

Mike
Making order from chaos is my passion.

Offline JavaMan

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2010, 10:36:41 AM »
lol muldoon that should work. Reminds me of one day riding my bike and pulled in deserted driveway to relieve myself. It was very rural and there we the grown up remains of a old rock house and garage. There was a sign that read "Whatever is here is not worth your life" I was not there long :)

That reminds me of something I read in a Louis L'Amour novel once.  His character had a gate at the entrance to his ranch with a sign that read, "Sighted for .56 Spencer rifle" ... I wonder if something like that would work.  My guess is someone would think to themselves these days that no one would want the liability of shooting a trespasser and test it out.  After finding out it wasn't true (unless of course it was), they'd ransack the place, but good.

Offline MountainDon

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2010, 11:08:55 AM »
It's a lot of good fun at times to hear and tell stories that carry veiled, or not so veiled threats against trespassers. However, from a practical point in this litigious world, it is really a very bad idea. Things like that, like a muttered "I'll shoot ya" can sometimes come back to bite you hard.

The same thing with anything can could be viewed as a bobby trap. Booby traps are lawsuits waiting to happen. Even with no trespassing types of signs posted if a trespasser were to step on the strip and puncture a foot the landowner may be held liable for damages. That may not seem to be right, but it's a fact that it has happened and will continue to happen.

One of the reasons some folks (me) post no trespassing signs is to have that legal layer in case someone trespasses and hurts themselves by falling into a hole I dug, or some damn thing. Placing booby traps could negate any legal protection the signs may have provided.

Be careful what you do, what you post. (both here and around your property.)
Just because something has been done and has not failed, doesn’t mean it is good design.

If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time and money to fix it?

Offline bayview

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Re: Remote Cabin Security
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2010, 11:56:06 AM »



   "If you build it, they will come . . . "

   I had the whole neighborhood driving by, walking by, tresspassing on my property when I wasn't there.   Just to see what I was up to . . .  Fortunately everything so far has stayed put!

   I am lucky to have good neighbors.   I generally leave the outside garage lights on at night.   I forgot and accidentally left them off.   Well, my neighbor to the south took it upon himself to check it out.    I appreciate it!  And him . . .   

/
    . . . said the focus was safety, not filling town coffers with permit money . . .