Don's Fun Utah Weekend!!

[MountainDon]

OK I'm baaaaack!

Had loads of fun! Moved loads of rock and shoveled loads of dirt, too, repairing the trail as we progressed. 40 miles distance covered. Approximately 17 hours of travel and trail work time, not counting lunch, and campsite time.

2.35 MPH

Have pictures. Here's a wide panoramic shot (stitched together, 2 images... (the sky is sometimes all that gives away the trickery).



The Jeeps are parked for a photo op at the top of Piute Pass. Right in the middle of the picture you can see a little piece of the dirt access road.
Scroll screen sideways; wide image   

[MountainDon]

Down in the Middle Of Nowhere, Utah



  The gray stuff is bentonite. Can't do this one is the wet! The stuff turns into snot.

[Sassy]

Great pictures!  Whew, you were really out there, looks like fun - I think 

[glenn kangiser]

In used bentonite a bit as a drilling additive.

I bet it would make for some fine mud wrestling.

Glad you had fun.

[BiggKidd]

Don,

Nice pics looks like a fun trip. Nickole and I are looking for a Jeep Cherokee like that. People around here want insane amounts of money for one around here. I saw one for sale yesterday about 243,000 miles and they wanted over 7500 for it. Crazy. I think it was a 98.

Any tips things to look for when buying? I pretty much know I don't want full time 4X4 and I do want the 4.0L. I think during some years Jeep offered Quad track true 4X4 with 4.11 gears I would like to find one of those. Do you know if they all came with the switch on the dash for towing? How much can be towed with a Jeep? I ask because I would like to be able to tow my boat (19' glasstron w/ cutty cabin)? Four of us in the cab of the Dodge is getting old.

Thanks Don & please post more of these cool pics.

Larry

[glenn kangiser]

Larry, I got my old '81 Cherokee Chief for $800 and had to have the trans OH'd for $800 shortly after I got it.  It could use an engine OH also but runs decent for local stuff and the 4x works great.  Deals are out there.  We found that one driving through the country.

I probably wouldn't have considered it if it wasn't for Don's postings about his.  We have taken it up many really rough areas- the road I made to the mine is only about a foot wider than the wheels with 6 inches clearance in some areas.  It does it just great.

[glenn kangiser]

Example - here

1991 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 4.0L/High Output/6cyl. Great winter/2nd vehicle, 199,733 miles, still lots of power, safe and solid, well maintained with normal wear. Everything still works. $1,500
Call 559-977-6738,

[MountainDon]

BiggKidd.

Mostly I would npot want to make a habit of towing more than a light folding tent trailer as a regular thing. But that's me talking where I'm usually never below 5000 feet and often up to 7500-8800. I tow a utility trailer and it's not bad around home (5500) feet even with a load of gravel. But it's relatively flat within a small radius. I would definitely try to find one with a hitch and try it before buying.

No, most of the Cherokee XJ series do not come equipped for towing. Most don't even come equipped properly for serious OHV use. I believe the factory trailer package supplied one size up in tires (wider), the lights connector and hitch, auxiliary transmission oil cooler, .... I don't know what else.

I divide the Cherokee XJ into two categories, older & newer with the break someplace around 95-96. The newer have OBD2 diagnostics and are all HO (high output) engines, I believe. I'm not one of those guys who can tell you all the little differences between the model years. But I have some general and specific advise.

I like the newer ones better.
I like the Aisin AW4 (4 speed OD) automatic, over any of the manual trannies. AT's are a boon in OHV use.

The newer have part time 4X4, but do not have front hubs or disconnects. This is good and bad. The earlier XJ Cherokees have a vacuum assisted engage/disengage the front axle system. Fuel mileage is slightly better. They are trouble prone and need to be replaced with a mechanical system. So the newer ones do away with that problem and offer 2 wheel drive (rear only) normal operation but the front wheels turn the axles and gears and front drive shaft and you pay a little more in fuel use. The chain drive 2.73:1 (usual) transfer case disconnects the power to the front end. You then also have 4 wheel drive Hi and Low ranges.

They use a Dana 35 front axle. They're okay. Locking hubs can be installed but that involves a change of the axle shafts and u-joints and some brake rotor machining as well as a bearing change. All for the good, but $$. Another route is to install a Dana 44 front axle with hubs; the nicest strongest solution. I still have the standard Dana 35.

The transfer case is good, but if a suspension lift of greater than 3 inches is used a "slip-yoke eliminator kit" must be installed. That involves splitting the case and replacing the output shaft and tail shaft housing adapter. The driveshaft must also be replaced with one with a front CV joint. The are cheaper SYE kits available, but they are not recommended, IMO. If the case doesn't have to be split it's not the better type. I did mine without even removing it from the vehicle.

The rear axles are either Dana 35 or Chrysler 8.25 inch. The 8.25 inch is preferred if much OHV use is involved. You can tell the 8.25" easily by standing to the rear of the vehicle, as if you're following one on the road. The bottom of the differential s flat, horizontal to the road, if it's an 8.25" If it's a Dana 35 it's rounded.

Some come with gas tank skids, some don't. Some have a front approach skid, some don't. I believe they all have a T-case skid plate. I replaced my t-case plate with an after market model and modified it so it fits up more. I also have a plate steel skid for the gas tank and the engine oil pan and transmission.

FYI, mine, the white one, is lifted 4.5", wears 32x11.5x15 BFG radials, has 4.56:1 gears with ARB air lockers front and rear. (Stock gears are usually 3.55. maybe 3.73 on trailering models. If I was doing it over I'd go with 4.11 with the 32" tires, but it's not a big deal... just a fraction of a MPG better om fuel, and they 4 wheel fine with 4.11.)  Custom bumpers F&R and the tire rack I made myself. My winch is mountable front or rear.

I also like the power windows, mirrors and seats on the newer ones. The power mirrors allow adjustment to see where the right rear tire is and the up/down on the power seats makes it nice for a better view over the hood at times. Power windows and A/C go together like hand & glove IMO. I am not averse to enjoying the A/C on a hot day of 4 wheeling, though by canvas topped brethren make like they don't approve.

[MountainDon]

Here's where we went, the SE corner of Utah. Note the paucity of populated centers.

There were 7 of us in 6 vehicles; 2 Cherokees, a older CJ7 and CJ8 (Scrambler) plus 2 newer (2002+)Jeep TJ's, a short Rubicon (regular length) and a newer extended Limited.



This is a closeup of the trail. We started and ended at the same higheay access point and did the loop CCW.

[MountainDon]

We came upon this large, extremely heavy chunk of sandstone on the trail; the first of many obstacles. Rather than attempt to move it we availed ourselves of some of the many smaller rocks to build ramps up and down.



Plus it's fun.

[MountainDon]

Note the Jeep in the upper section. It's backing up the trail. The terrain is too steep to make a proper switchback at that point. So you drive up onto a flat area, then reverse up the next short segment to another flat area. Then continue forward up the next trail section. This is common enough that it's never a surprise to me.

[MountainDon]

Another section of the trail ascending the first cliff.



BiggKidd.... the stock Roof rack is pathetic if you are going to actually use it to carry something like gas cans or firewood. I built that from 3/4 and 1 inch sq. tubing, .062 wall. Closer pictures upon request.

Saturday's lunch stop. No shade. May is an excellent time for a trip here.

[MountainDon]

Terry was bringing up the rear. Maybe the combination of the passing prior 5 vehicles, maybe he was a little closer to the edge, maybe he had annoyed some god who wanted to give him a little scare... Anyhow the edge of the road/cliff gave way. His front axle was not engaged (if you need the technical details "why" ask me) and when the right rear went down, the left rear went up and that was it. Terry is an experienced 4 wheeler BYW. Just unlucky on Saturday.





Terry was very calm on the radio. Just a simple, short, "Uh... guys....stop". A few seconds later he announced, "I'm going to need an anchor."  The 4 front runners were around a corner. I looked in my mirror and could see his Jeep had assumed an unnatural position. Other than a slight problem with the winch brake this all turned out okay. Video on tat later.

[BiggKidd]

Don & Glenn,

Thanks.

  Wow those pictures are cool. Glad I wasn't driving Terry's Jeep i'd need new shorts

We have been keeping an eye out there are lots of them for sale but around here they have 150,000 plus miles and look like crap for under $3,000.
  Larry

BTW

I appreciate all the info now I know some things to look out for. Hopefully I wont need to lift it as this would be everyday transportation.

[MountainDon]

The virtual wasteland in the area down off the first mesa we climbed over. Piute Pass the name of the trail, was at the top of that portal.



The first night's camping spot. This was selected because the skies were clear, the forecasts were clear, and everywhere else was tilted one way or the other. Note though, that Terry, Jim and I selected our spots on the highest sand/gravel area in the wash.



Also note there is nothing to burn; why we carried our own supply of firewood.

This is the next day... really the Middle of Nowhere. This is virtually all bentonite; slippery as snot when wet.

[MountainDon]

Glad I wasn't driving Terry's Jeep i'd need new shorts

Terry commented later that he was glad he had not put the new seat covers in yet.

[BiggKidd]

Don,

This is virtually all bentonite; slippery as snot when wet.

YOu can send me a few bags full I need to seal up my dam.

Larry

[MountainDon]

More rock and more rock...   





More bentonite...

[MountainDon]

We ran into a washed out section, again. I lost track after 6. We spent a lot of time chucking rocks into washouts and sinkholes and almost as much time shoveling off high points and high edges. I don't have photos of much of our road work as I was too bust wielding my shovel. Even when chucking rocks we use a shovel to first lift or turn it. Why? Answer below the next picture.



Rattlesnakes. None seen this trip, but I've seen them in the past.

We chucked all that rock into a sinkhole. It made the trail too narrow to be safe and the area around the sinkhole too dangerous to straddle.

[MountainDon]

Another couple of shots showing typical trail and Utah red sandstone.   

[MountainDon]

This is another view of the turnouts and section of trail that must be traversed in reverse gear. This is viewing from the top on our way back down.



I'll close this section with another shot of my Cherokee and I crossing the same rockpile as before, on the way down.



For those who don't know and might want to know... the front sway bar is disconnected to allow the extreme drop of the axle to one side or the other. Not advised for highway use, it is an invaluable tool for stuff like this. This is also one of the things that makes a vehicle like a Cherokee (coil springs in front) than older Jeeps (leaf springs in the front). Coild springs also allow sharper turns.

[MountainDon]

Epilogue:

The rest of the guys had to hightail it for home to be able to get to work Monday AM. I did not and decided to camp out at one of my favorite, more or less middle of nowhere spots, but just off highway 95.

Here's a question for you, and this is not hypothetical. What would you imagine the worst thing that could happen if you have a Cherokee like I do, and you are ready to air up the tires at the end of the trail?

(When doing this sort of OHV stuff I run the tires at 14 psi as a rule; that gives a wider footprint, the tire conforms to rock better and gives better grip, the ride is softer...)

We'll narrow this down a little.

1. I had the air hose.
2. I had the tire valve chuck on the hose.
3. The hose holds air okay.
4. The air compressor works fine, as it did all weekend (for the air lockers).
5. There are no problems with the tires or valve stems/cores/caps.

Answer a few lines down the page......










.......... I pulled the hood latch release. The right side of the hood popped up, but not the left side. I pulled again. And again. Nothing more happened. I said "Oh $hit"! I pushed the right side down and tried again. No luck. I tried lightly prying up the left front corner of the hood. No luck. I thought okay, maybe something's tweaked. If I jack one corner maybe it'll pop open. I tried the left front corner. Nope. Tried the right front corner. Nope.

(NOTE: The air compressor is under the hood. I need to open the hood to attach the air hose to the connector. )

I got my vice grips out, pulled the release handle out as far as it would go and clamped the vice grips on the shaft to keep it from retracting. Then I tried lightly prying, jacking the corner, thumping the fender, hood and so on. The left side remained thoroughly closed and locked down.

Then I wondered if it would help id the right side was pressed down and the release pulled??? So I put a jacket on the right front hood corner and a 30-40 pound boulder on it. The hood went down to the closed position. The left side lifted a little. I pried a little. Nothing.

So I removed the vice grips to allow the mechanism to "reset", put the rock back on the hood and hanked the release handle. Nothing. Oh, my handiest prying tool, with a slim blade/point was the Rigid brand shovel. I discovered I could insert it in the space between the hood and the nose fairing and make it balance there applying slight lifting pressure to the hood. I placed my sleeping bag over the windshield just in case the shovel fell the wrong way.

I pulled the handle one more time. The left corner popped up!!!!!!!!! I locked the vice grips on the shaft again, removed the rock from the hood right corner and that corner popped up!! Yahoo! I hadn't wanted to drive the 53 miles to the gas staion/store on hwy 191 on 14 psi tires! I aired up without further event.

I put a small stick along the fender edge, left side, just big enough to keep the hood corner from latching. I attached a length of mechanics wire to the underside of the hood and fed it through a hole in the fender below where the old air box had been mounted. I secured that end underneath so the hood couldn't open. The right corner latched down okay.

Then I made for home.

[BiggKidd]

Don,

Great pics.  I didn't mean to post several times in the middle of the string. All the jeep info was great. Nickole has been checking everyday.

Do you go wheeling often? It looks like a lot of fun. Whenever we went it was more of a mudding thing. More time spent digging out of the soup than driving.

Larry

[MountainDon]

Hey Larry, no problem with the comments inserted. You didn't know if I was done then or now.

As for wheeling.... I hate mud!!!! I know that some places it's mud or nothing. But I don't like it. I don't like the cleanup (the Jeep) afterwards. I simply don't like mud. Period.

I love sandstone, especially Utah sandstone. It's pretty and it has a rough surface texture that tires grip well. It's more durable than most sandstone in NM. I guess the contractor got the mix 'right' on the UT 'stone.   

I don't get out enough. I'm going to try for another trip this fall. Way too hot there in July/August. Benn there, done that.

[glenn kangiser]

My Cherokee hood has the same problem, Don, but I adjusted it some -- can't remember - tightened the spring etc.  For some reason it works most of the time now or I pull it up a bit then pull the release again.  Must be a Jeep thing but it's working so I better not fix it.