20 x 30 Single Story in Central NY

[Squirl]

OK.  It's been a few years since I first started coming here.  After a few years of setbacks (purchasing an inaccessible property) and time constraints, I just got off the phone with the building inspector and am being issued my building permit.  I have an excavator scheduled to start the foundation this weekend.  I will upload some pictures when I have a chance.  So far I got the field brush hogged, the mail box in, the septic marked, and the foundation marked.  I didn't want to jinx it, so I didn't start posting till I got approval to build.

[rich2Vermont]

Congrats Squirl! Looking forward to seeing the picts.

[archimedes]

Congratulations !

Can't wait for the pics.   Good luck with your build.

[Squirl]

So it started out as a field.  So I rented a brush hog from home cheapo.  It worked pretty well.  It took all day. 

[Squirl]

So I went to the back near the tree line for the septic.  I measured 20 ft from the tree line and 15 ft from the property line.  The engineer told me that I needed three lines 6 ft on center 35 ft long.  So that is what I marked. 



All three lines.



I'm going for passive solar.  In the winter the sun is at a 27 degree angle.  So plugging that in to a right triangle calculator with a tree height of 50 ft for the trees on the south side gives me a shadow distance of 100 ft.  So I measured 100 ft from the tree line for the minimum distance of the house from the tree line.

[Squirl]

Now I had to find south and line the building up.  I got out the compass, level , and T square.  I lined up the compass and used the clip to keep it at a right angle with the level.  I used the level to make the compass level to get an accurate reading.  Then I used the T-square to get a square corner.  So I found that NY, NY has a compass correction of 10 degrees and Buffalo has a correction of 15 degrees.  So I split the difference.  To correct I turned north to 12.5 degrees.





Nice and square.  36 feet



20 x 30

[rick91351]

I am looking foreword to seeing your project take shape.  I am beginning to think ours will never happen... 

[speedfunk]

squirl:  So excited to see you starting, congrats man!  BTW I am really jealous of your 3 branches of 35feet.   That sounds like a very diy septic ( not sure if thats your plan but...but still cheaper then our 5 lines and 50feet per  ) .   The soil  must be deep there!
It looks nice up there also. 

[Squirl]

Actually the soil failed miserably.  I was really angry about that.  I was negotiating with the seller with the only two contingencies in the contract. First, no oil or gas lease on the property.  Second, it would perc for a conventional gravity fed septic system.  So we signed all the contracts, and I hired an engineer.  I went with Mount Vision Engineering.  They were the same price for a conventional system as what you had contracted and the building inspector recommended them as the best work he had seen.  So I paid him $500 to do the preliminary report and I had to pay JR Plumbing ($200) to dig the deep hole.  As I was standing there with the building inspector, realtor, and engineer, the engineer looks around and says "this is going to fail." I was shocked.  He then went on to say, "yeah, I tested it right over there two years ago."  The realtor got a panicked look on her face.  He didn't seem to want to tell me that he had already tested the property and it failed two years ago until after he showed up.  Oh yeah, and the owners owned the property for 25 years.  So everyone knew and didn't tell me.  I was already under contract and the only way out was to get a letter from him stating it failed for a gravity fed conventional septic system.  They hit rock at 2 ft.  There is only 13" of loam soil.  That 13"s percs at 20 minutes per inch.  So they were going over all the options, sand $20,000, Peat $25,000, they didn't even give the price for more expensive options.  I knew enough of the process that I know most of that price would be in just fuel shipping in 1000's of tons of fill.  So I said, what about composting?  The engineer and building inspector said, that I wouldn't need a septic system at all, just grey water treatment.  The plumbing contractor didn't seem pleased with that.  With my reading of the regs, I was a little surprised by this.  They assured me that was the case.  I figured if a NY state engineer and building inspector said it was true, those were the two people I needed.  During that morning the building inspector was also recommending potable rainwater catchment and a wind turbine.  I asked what I needed for the wind turbine, such as engineer plans or stamps.  The inspector said, I fill out the form, he inspects the setbacks and then he approves it.  So far he has been very easy to work with and has had great suggestions.   With all that surety, I wanted to stay in his jurisdiction rather than dealing with the whole county.  He is defiantly a sticker for the energy code too, which is a good thing in my book. The seller came down in price to accommodate the extra cost of the composting system.  I don't know about how much value it would lose if I tried to resell it.  I expect it would be a lower valued property anyway because it is off grid.  All the neighbors seemed to agree it was going to be a quiet area for a long time with no one else building around me if I don't run power.
After that long winded story, the 3 lines of 75 ft of ARC 24 Infiltrators are for a greywater composting system for a 1 bedroom. I double checked the calculations of the engineer here:
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=10857.msg138760#msg138760

The other thing that worries me is that rock layer.  I am getting the larger mini (35 hp) delivered Saturday. If it can't make it through the inspector said he would let me put the footing right on that layer of rock. "That's not going anywhere"  I hope he would be alright with an unheated FPSF design too.

[Squirl]

Yes, it will be DIY septic.  I will post plenty of pictures.  Wow, 250 ft is that maximum size for a two bedroom.

[RIjake]

Squirl where did you find the info for the sun angle at your latitude?

[John Raabe]

Here is the declination map from the Sunkit



The sunkit (click link above) has much more information than just locating true South.

Note to some who may not have explored our CountryPlans Home Page - Plan and publication sales are what make the free forum possible. We all appreciate that support.

[RIjake]

thanks john!

[Squirl]

I also double checked using this:

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/geomagmodels/Declination.jsp

12° 55' W

I purchased a set of plans too.  I just went in a different direction. 

Here is the floor plan I submitted.

[Alan Gage]

Glad to hear you're underway (almost). Looking forward to it.

Alan

[Windpower]

This will be fun to watch

What are you planning for off grid ..... sounds like wind/solar

do you know the wind conditions there ?

[Squirl]

The wind conditions are very good, but not great.  I am on the back side of the mountain, but still on a ridge.  The property is flat and open from west to east, which is the direction most of the wind blows.  The land drops off at around a 20% slope 150 feet to the east of the property and drops 250 in elevation.  The slope is less dramatic to the west, but still drops off to the west by 350 ft.  This was very nice because even in the hot weather last weekend, I had a cool breeze the whole time.  I plan on going with solar for the initial setup.  More code and inspection people are familiar with it.  The nice part is the building inspector is familiar with solar because he has a 2.5 KW system on his house, although he said a battery based system is something new for him.  We started out our initial conversation discussing articles in homepower magazine.  When he stopped by for my septic inspection he goes "this would be a great site for a wind turbine."  That was music to my ears coming from a building inspector.  The peak of the mountain is my other property and has an elevation 200 ft higher than this property.  That has a peak higher than anything for 6 miles.  If I put up a 90-100 ft tower at this site, I would still have more than a 30 ft height clearance of any obstruction within half of a mile.

For the solar I have to worry about the shadow from the trees in the winter.  I am debating a tall ground setup, a tall pole setup, or on the roof.  I am not a fan of roof mounts because of the difficulty of angle tilting, but it would give me a 16' height advantage.

[John Raabe]

My own passive solar strategy (an attached sunroom and passive solar water heating) was flawed by the fact that I forgot that trees get taller over time.

When we built in 1983 we carved out a large sunny spot in the middle of our 5 acre patch of woods. We built on the northern side of this clearing and I was careful to make sure the sunchart showed that the house and sunroom saw full sun on the day the sun was lowest in the southern sky (December 21st). So we were good for the 1980's.

Fast forward to now and the trees are over twice the height they were 28 years ago. We now inhabit a clearing with tall majestic sentinels on all sides. The summer is lovely but we don't see a lot of the sun in the winter.

I think I might wait until the price of timber goes up and then call in the loggers. But that will be a tough decision. My wife has names for some of our trees.

PS - Nice project Squirl 

[Windpower]

The mountain top site sounds great for the mill

is it close enough to run power to the house ?

[MountainDon]

Good to see your start!   


If you plan on seasonal tilt adjustment for the PV modules a pole mount makes that easier than a roof mount. Poles also get above the ground snow.

[Squirl]

Well I just got back from digging the foundation.  I will probably have the time to post pictures tomorrow or Wednesday.

Yes the trees will probably be cut down.  That upsets me a little, but not much.  Most are eastern white pine and there is not even close to a straight section in most of them.  They are twisted, broken, and split. They wouldn't even make great firewood.  Since they have little productivity other than to block my solar access, they will be replaced.  Probably by fruit trees or hardwoods.  It is good mountain soil that is perfect for apples and pears.  I found two apple trees in the forest so far.  The problem is they are 50 ft tall.  Also along the tree line to the south west is some type of hickory tree with nuts the size of half my thumb.  I don't know what   I'm debating whether they should go too.  The county extension service has a forestry department.  From what I've read, for a small fee, they will send out a certified forester to do a walkthrough and give recommendations of how to manage your forest and which trees are valuable to loggers.  After the house is built, that will be one of the first calls.  I placed the house around 125 ft from the tree line.  The trees would have to get to over 65 ft, or I could cut back the tree line.  It is an easy to remember 2:1 ratio.

Windpower, the top of the mountain is 2000 ft away, and there is a property in between.  One of my new neighbors (who I don't think is happy I'm there)  came over and proceeded to tell me what a poor location I bought because it was so windy.   I again had a 5-10 mph breeze almost the whole weekend.

Don't get too attached to the design, even though he said he is issuing the building permit, he failed individual parts.  One of the key ones was that you cannot have an electrical panel in a closet, and because I access the utility room through a closet, which is what he said is not allowed.

[John Raabe]

Squirl:

Thanks for the tip about a possible extension service forester. I'll see if we have one.

[old_guy]

We have 73 acres in Claiborne County,Tennessee.  Last fall I contacted our Area Forester.  He walked the entire property and produced both soil maps an timber management maps.  He then provided a timber management plan based on the soil and existing timber.

No charge (property taxes, I suppose).

A fabulous resource, expecially for those of us who don't know everything.

John

[Squirl]

As promised, here are the pictures.

12 yards of #2 crushed stone for the footing and septic.



The machine.  It was a 35 hp Mini.


It was just enough to get through the fragipan layer of clay and shale.  Any smaller would never have made it.  I wish I could have gotten a bigger one, but not many people would rent to a non-contractor.  It took a bit to the hang of.  I rented it for the weekend.  I got 12 hours of run time.  I ran over that.  I started trying to dig a double wide swath. Here I am breaking ground.



It took so long to get one hole I knew I was never going to get done in time.  So I decided to do a single trench 24" wide.  It left me just enough room for the footing.  With only 2-4 inches of clearance in some spots, there was no way I was going to be able to apply surface bonding cement.  So mortared block it is.  I'm glad I waited to buy it.

Here is a good picture of the double wide and single wide sections.




I got a few pointers from friend who owns an excavation company.  Start at one corner and work your way around three sides.  I left a small piece on the third for enough room to run the treads over when doing the fourth.



Then vegetation gets scraped from center.



In the process the line got scraped off the fourth leg.  Time for some batter boards.



I should have used 2x2s or 2x3 instead of 2x4.   They are a lot easier to drive in and hold just fine.  Also I needed to get longer batter boards. 4ft was not long enough in certain areas. 



It took half a day to find square again.  I found out it is hard to keep a straight trench.  I had to go back a re do parts.  You can see the new marked line and some orange along the right trench of area to be removed.


I then went back and got the last trench, then the small piece I from the third trench.  Just in time for the end of the weekend 13.5 hours of run time on the machine.

[archimedes]

Looks like a nice job.    

Is this the first time you used a machine like that?  If so,  was it harder or easier than you expected?

Can't really tell from the pics but,   since it's NY,   I'm assuming that trench is 4' deep?