stair building, riverbank

Started by kev_alaska, February 28, 2006, 06:33:43 PM

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kev_alaska

I searched all of the old forum posts as well as this one for information on building stairs up my riverbank. Nothing was coming up, so I thought I would see if anyone had a link to a book or more information on my summer project. We finished one cabin this last summer, and this summer's first project are stairs from the river to the top of the bluff.....

The run is about 60' vertical feet with a run of about 100'...I will be looking at  a couple landings to give an opportunity to catch your breath...and also to sit out on to watch the water go by....!
Stealing ideas from John, PEG and Glenn for a several years now.......

Amanda_931

One of the places I lived in Honolulu was on the side of Round Top, in a guest/servant cottage next to a larger house.  There were 89 stone steps from the garage up to the house, and another five to the cottage.  Kept us in shape, and organized.

The house had an unused solar hot water system.  And a big restaurant style sub-zero refrigerator that no one was ever ever ever going to remove.

But  some long ago person had put a little landing about 2/3 of the way up.  stone bench with a little roof and a sign that said "bus stop."

No help with your project, unless you decide you have to put a bus stop sign there because we had one.

Part of how you do it is going to depend on how your bluff is made, how you can tie steps into it, not risk a whole section of staircase falling into (blocking?) the river.   Or boulders falling down onto the stairs.



glenn kangiser

Can you tell us more about your conditions -- clay --sand-- rock ?  What type of stairs?  Wood  - rock  -- switch backs?  Pictures of the site?

All would help to get you more possible solutions. :)
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

kev_alaska

Mostly a heavy sand bluff, going to need a couple switchbacks just for knee relief going up the hill. Going to be constructed of pressure treated wood (I have in mind 2 X 10 stringers with dual 2 X 6 treads with 2 X 4 step supports under the treads) with driven poles into the bank for securing the stairs and a couple switchback landings. I will articulate the last segment of stairs for removal when the ice is going out on the river. I am going to be placing erosion control Jute mat down before driving the poles and planting some sand friendly alders to secure the bank in the future. This is for summer access to the small cabin and land that I posted on the owner built section under 10 X 14 on the riverbluff. http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/kev_alaska/album?.dir=c435&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos
Stealing ideas from John, PEG and Glenn for a several years now.......

PEG688

Kev  I'd use 2 x 12 PT for the stringers/ stair horses and I use 14' long stock at most , or provide a set of post with a short beam to support mid span if you go with longer 2 x 12 stock.   By the time you cut the rise and tread cuts on a 2 x 10 you would not  have enough wood left for support.

I did a similar beach stair a few years back, brutle work , lugging stock / materials around .  Provide for as many switchbacks /jogs , etc the angling will help some what with displacing the motion of multipal people moving on the stairs at one time . Hope that makes sence .  It will distrubute movement.

I'll see if I can find #1 the pictures of that stair , and #2 scan them to post next week.

 Good luck , nice place  :)

PEG          
When in doubt , build it stout with something you know about .


kev_alaska

To this point I hadn't planned on cutting risers in the stringers. Rather just use the stringers on the outside of the treads which are supported by the 2 x 4 blocks. Durability is the main requirement on these. A support beam mid run is a good idea.

Brutal is right. Everything we have done to this point has involved hauling things up the bank. The four wheelers made a huge difference as well as the gasoline capstain winch. Even with them, we have been described as marginally psychotic. Just wait till they see the big cabin!
Stealing ideas from John, PEG and Glenn for a several years now.......

JRR

60' rise in 100' isn't too steep for steps, but I'm not sure about a sand/earth incline that steep ... it's erosion that concerns me.

I've seen some pretty steep foot paths in state parks that were fashioned by simply by placing creosoted cross-ties on the earth and then pinning them in place using long steel spikes on each end.   The cross-ties were placed far enough apart up the grade, so that over time, the space in between filled with loose earth that became compacted with foot traffic.

kev_alaska

#7
The steps are a good idea. I don't know if our borough people have any jurisdiction over the bank of the river. Erosion is my concern with that scenario. I would rather go to the extra labor and cost of suspending the stairs above the bank if possible. Thus the jute mat with alders planted through it. If it really came down to it, I would rather my stairs get washed away and the bank gets protected. The stairs will be going just to the left of the route we used to pull material up the bank. That route will be getting a trolley system this summer to keep from damaging any more bank.
Stealing ideas from John, PEG and Glenn for a several years now.......

peg_688

QuoteRather just use the stringers on the outside of the treads which are supported by the 2 x 4 blocks. Durability is the main requirement on these. A support beam mid run is a good idea.

 So how wide a stairway are you talking about ,  3' ?

    If so I'd use a 2x10" tread with a bolted 2x4" ledger on each side with a 2x4x34 1/2 " long strongback under each tread screwed thur the tread.   I might even add two ea. threaded rods equally spaced per stair stringer set, to hold the stringers from spreading .

 I'm glad to hear you are concerned for the bank more than the stair system  :)

  Good luck,  PEG


Amanda_931

Tires might even work, although they'd be a pain to bring in a few at a time in the boat.  And they're not very even, unless you run into some fleet deal.

(Cut one--or both might work--sidewall off with the jigsaw, lay, cut side up, it so that the downhill side just sets on the earth, bury the uphill so it's more or less level, you might be able to fill with what you're  digging out for the next one uphill--although when I've tried this I've ended up toting buckets of gravel down to fill/finish filling my tires, which would be even more of a pain for you.)

harry51

Kev, here's a short stairway I built years ago that's held up well. This approach might work for you because it results in a really solid stair that's easy to assemble. Like you suggested, the stringers aren't notched for the treads. Instead, they're bolted together through angle iron brackets. I made most of the brackets at home where I had a drill press, and a cutoff saw. A few were made on-site, like the one holding the handrail to the post, using a reciprocating saw with a metal cutting blade and a portable drill.  The odd two piece stringers were used because I had the 2x6's already on hand. Depending on the span between foundation points, maybe you could use one 2x10 stringer per side, as you mentioned.




peg_688

#11
Pre made from Simpson.    

  http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/ta.html%20

 TAZ Staircase Angles

 

Get ZMAX  hardware for ACQ treated lumber.

 PEG

kev_alaska

#12
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/kev_alaska/album?.dir=c435&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos

Pasting pictures still eludes me....

Anyway, that is a Yahoo link to pictures of the semi-finished stairs, or as my river neighbors call them "Kev's psychosis"

PEG, thanks for the bluff stairs pictures. I will be stealing the handrail design next. Hopefully before the snow flies.

Kevin

(I'll add a couple of Kevin's images, JR)

 

Sassy

WOW! Great job!  What a challenge - looks like the same type of terrain PEG had... I'm sure you guys get your exercise walking up & down that - next you'll have to build an elevator  ;)


Amanda_931

One of the houses I lived in in Honolulu had lots and lots of stairs going up to it.  that was the reason that the main house would fairly often be rented to groups of students or hippies.  As was the little servant/guest cottage (this was the place where you could look from the front door into the shower).  And the reason that the main house had something on the order of a sub-zero refrigerator that never got moved.

Some of the houses on the street had funicular (incline) railways up to them.  This one did not.  But it still had a complete but non-working solar water heater, probably from when it was built--20's, maybe.  (it's all condos now.

But about 2/3 of the way up someone had put a little sheltered bench.  With a sign that said

[size=24]Bus Stop[/size]

Sounds like a good idea for your stairs as well.

JRR

Impressive stairway!

Those stringers are so straight, yet unbraced.  If I tried that with the pine wood we typically get in the southeast, it would twist in the sun/rain and the stairway would wander from side to side ... making straight work nearly impossible.  What is that wood species?  "Fir", I assume?