Author Topic: okay guys n gals..HELP (Roof trusses)  (Read 4745 times)

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Offline benevolance

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okay guys n gals..HELP (Roof trusses)
« on: July 06, 2006, 11:12:38 PM »
Okay here goes nothing... I got a couple trailer loads of telephone poles (free) and I am putting up a building 40 x 60 2 story...

Pole Construction... cutting the poles 18 feet long.. 2 feet in cement in the ground... 16 above ground 8 feet per story...

For the roof I would like the Trusses to span 64 feet... and throw them all the way to one side and have 24 feet of roof overhang on the side that I will support on the ends with posts...For outside Shade and storage

Someone have a link or a article for truss design and building... a scale to follow...

I traded a car for enough used tin to skin the building with....So now I have to buy enough 2x6 to strap the building... and then it is just the manual labour of digging the holes... putting the poles in the hole...and pouring the cement...

I have to get some help...I tried to lugging the telephone poles around bt myself... oh man are they heavy... 2 guys should be able to pick a pole up and put it in the hole though

Thoughts, ideas...

And yes folks I got a building permit... $15

I failed to tell them exactly what I was building ...I was vague...I said exact words....Just an old pole building to store garden supplies....

If the inspectors come by I will make sure to have a rake and shovel inside at all times...

hehe

the 2x 6 I need for the double top plate and the strapping will kill me in costs... figure I need 1100 feet of 2x6... I got the tin for a car I had.. and I got the poles for nothing...

Some cement... and the trusses....

Hoping to have the building up and tight for $3000 cash....

Cement floor can come next year

Sorry for the abscence guys...so busy I hadly have time  for anything

Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: okay guys n gals..HELP (Roof trusses)
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2006, 05:38:16 AM »
Slow down a bit Peter.   :-/

I think you will need some good diagonal bracing if that is all the deeper you go with your poles.  A tall building and good wind will probably fold that over.

Could you leave the poles longer - maybe 5 feet in the ground- I'm not an engineer but that is common practice around here.
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

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Offline benevolance

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Re: okay guys n gals..HELP (Roof trusses)
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2006, 06:06:26 AM »
Glenn

I can leave the poles longer... They are 30-40 feet long...

With no snow load and very little wind...I thought 2 feet in the ground would be plenty....there are all kinds of pole buildings here where they just build the thing... it is not anchored to the ground at all....They just sit the poles on level ground...

I was going to put the poles in 2 feet of concrete...but I could go 4 feet of concrete I guess if I had to...Going to pay a guy with an auger on his tractor to come and drill the holes for me...

I figured the telephone poles would have all kinds of strength structure wise when I added the floor joists and tied all that in...But before I got the second story floor finished it would have all kinds of corner bracing.

Another thing I like to do when putting up a building is to put a double plate all the way around the top of the posts...breaking joint..

The 2x6 strapping all the way around the building should make it quite rigid as well.

I am not going to have the building up in the next few days...I have not started to design or build my roof trusses...I have cleared the land...Burned the brush...Graded it and removed stumps...So I have made some progress...I have to dig/drill the holes for the poles and start the outside skeleton...it will take me a couple weeks to build this by myself...I am several weeks away from starting on it....So there is a lot of time left for planning.

I already have some 40 foot steel H beams I will use!

I really would like to figure out the dimensions for a roof truss that will span 64 feet though so I can go ahead and start figuring out how much lumber will be required...Which will let me try to find a way to scrounge the lumber used or come up with the money to buy it new.. rough cut at the local saw mill

Always glad for your input Glenn

Offline Doug Martin

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Re: okay guys n gals..HELP (Roof trusses)
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2006, 01:07:26 PM »
Quote
Pole Construction... cutting the poles 18 feet long.. 2 feet in cement in the ground... 16 above ground 8 feet per story...

Don't forget the width of the floor between the first and second story.

I'd also think about putting the poles deeper.  With 16+ feet of tin you have a huge sail there.  There is going to be some monster torque on those poles.

There was a nice website about a guy who built a nice pole house in Texas linked from another guy who builds pole hoses in Australia.  I can't for the life of me find them now.

Offline n74tg

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Re: okay guys n gals..HELP (Roof trusses)
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2006, 02:27:56 PM »
If your interested in truss designs, here's a link:

http://muextension.missouri.edu/explore/mwps/MW0009.htm

I bought their truss book; really cheap, like maybe $7 and will choose one of the designs for my house.
My house building blog:

http://n74tg.blogspot.com/

Offline benevolance

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Re: okay guys n gals..HELP (Roof trusses)
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2006, 02:43:04 PM »
I cannot believe there will ever be enough wind to take this building up...It is getting a cement floor...A full upstairs that will have tons of weight..Going to load it with doors fenders off cars.... good heavy stuff

I am drilling and bolting all the floor joists together..And it will have a couple 40 foot steel H beams....Maybe I am wacko...I thought for sure it would be plenty strong

Offline JRR

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Re: okay guys n gals..HELP (Roof trusses)
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2006, 03:05:25 PM »
This might be of some interest to you:

Pole Barn: http://www.cps.gov.on.ca/english/ss8000/ss8161.htm


North Dakota State Extension service has much info on subject.  I've never really used any ... but makes good reading:

70' wide truss: http://www.ag.ndsu.nodak.edu/abeng/plans/708-1-4.pdf


A note of caution: Standard truss designs are intended to be used at their designed width for the specified load.  As I understand your first post, you intend to use a 64' wide truss ... but you intend to let it "overhang" or cantilever for 24' on one side.  I'm no expert, but this sounds like disaster in the making.

If you intend to use trusses this (offset) way, you need special engineering!

If you intend to support "all" the ends and merely have an "interior" wall, I would see no problem ... and this may be your plan.  The interior wall may have to be non-supporting .... again, you need an expert.

Just wanted to make sure.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2006, 03:32:39 PM by JRR »

Offline benevolance

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Re: okay guys n gals..HELP (Roof trusses)
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2006, 08:11:10 PM »
Well Everytime I try to open up adobe acrobat reader my version of windows locks up and shuts down...

Try to imagine the joy in my house when this happens!!!

I got tinkering with pencil and paper and I think I have solved the 24 feet of overhang problem....

If the amish could erect massive barns held together with lettle pegs of wood...Surely to God I can get this sorted out

Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: okay guys n gals..HELP (Roof trusses)
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2006, 08:36:41 PM »
I see another possible problem here, Peter.  Depends on what you are doing but the truss design will support the roof load if you find one that matches what you want but other loads need to be supported from below - - you couldn't put much of a load on a truss that wasn't designed for it.  What about internal poles to support the roof and the second floor - Would they get in your way?
"Always work from the general to the specific." J. Raabe

Glenn's Underground Cabin  http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=151.0

Please put your area in your sig line so we can assist with location specific answers.

Offline benevolance

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Re: okay guys n gals..HELP (Roof trusses)
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2006, 08:58:48 PM »
Glenn

Half of the building on the first floor will just be storage...So support poles are no problem

I am going to install a hoist and work in the other half...Repairing and customizing cars...So yes in that half the poles would be in my way

Offline Amanda_931

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Re: okay guys n gals..HELP (Roof trusses)
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2006, 02:50:08 PM »
Even the Piedmont areas of the Carolinas get tail ends of hurricanes.  Sometimes we even get them in Tennessee. :o  More than once I stood on my back porch in Nashville and smelled the ocean.    If you're really up in the mountains you'd be pretty well protected, most of the time.  

And those Siberian Clipper type winter storms can be right windy as well.

I thought that the rule of thumb for poles was somewhere around a third buried.

benevolance

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Re: okay guys n gals..HELP (Roof trusses)
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2006, 10:05:06 PM »
Amanda

I am not really in the mountains...We do not get much hostile weather...I have a great view of the mountains...Only 6 miles from them...

Dunno about the rule for burying poles...People here honest to goodness build with the poles not buried at all..

I also thought about pouring a cement footing and running angle iron down the sides of the footing and bolting the poles to the angle iron...But that is a lot of work

I think I will put the pole 4 feet in the ground and then cover the floor with 4 inches of concrete and make sure the cement covers the base of all the poles...I might even drill a hole at the base through each pole and stick a piece of rebar through so it will be under the cement.

Buddy of mine came by to shoot the breeze today...Thought it was pretty cool to use the Auger on the Tractor to dig the holes......I am ready to start building I have to keep reminding myself to wait until I have all the 2x6 bought and hauled home to strap the building....

Do not want the wind to get it... Strapping it inside and out should take the shakiness out of it.... Then I can worry about the steel beams and the Second story Floor Joists

Lumber is just so darned expensive.... I think the local used lumber yards all hate me...I have made the rounds so much lately trying to scrounge material

glenn-k

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Re: okay guys n gals..HELP (Roof trusses)
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2006, 05:01:17 AM »
Sounds like your plan is coming together, Peter.  The above sounds pretty good.  Just going by rule of thumb stuff.  Working for the phone company I remember trying o pull a pole out that was buried about 4 to 5  feet.  Around 20000 lbs or more wouldn't do it there but ground can vary.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2006, 05:02:16 AM by glenn-k »

JRR

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Re: okay guys n gals..HELP (Roof trusses)
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2006, 07:41:11 AM »
Putting one pole in the ground a couple of feet seems a bit risky... but a whole matrix of poles, the same depth, "looks" differently to me.

glenn-k

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Re: okay guys n gals..HELP (Roof trusses)
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2006, 07:49:20 AM »
The only problem I have with shallower depth is bracing and hold down but then you would be trading the simple cheap putting the poles deeper to help with both or adding massive amounts of concrete and diagonal bracing.

I have one section of my salvage metal shop roof that is cantilevered 15 feet and 99% of the time I don't worry about it but when that gusty 30 to 40 mile per hour wind drops in I really wish I had finished putting the other post in the ground.  I may go do it some day.

Amanda_931

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Re: okay guys n gals..HELP (Roof trusses)
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2006, 03:05:55 PM »
When I saw augers for tractors, the first thing I thought about was digging holes for poles or trenches for foundations.  I've done both now.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2006, 03:06:24 PM by Amanda_931 »

 

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