Glenn's Underground Cabin Update

glenn kangiser · July 28, 2013, 11:47:09 PM

We have 3 fire choppers running out of here now I think. This one and 2 Skycranes.... Fire going by Mammoth Pool seems to send it's smoke all up here each night.

....and Sassy and I went to the Hibachi Grill today just to see if we could overstuff ourselves again... Hmmm ...all that good food.. no problem...

Well... tomorrow it'll be time to see what we can do about fixing that windmill. Located the sucker rods I think...

glenn kangiser · July 29, 2013, 10:38:28 PM

Headed up to get the Sucker Rods for the mill tomorrow and check on possible sails for it... though I can make them if need be.

Four of them are damaged or missing so I guess we will do what we have to do.

The lady at the windmill place is very knowledgeable and recommended going to a packer on the top rather than the old stand pipe and keep the system closed and clean... good idea I think and allows a proper finish at the top of the well too.

July 30, 2013, 07:54:52 PM

Beautifull photos of old mine should be good to know!!!
Glenn is the best way to engage the mind and body, very good!

glenn kangiser · July 30, 2013, 11:15:03 PM

Thanks Tony... Yes ... the old mines are both interesting and give me plenty of exercise.

I went past quite a few of them today as I went up the Golden Chain Highway 49 to Placerville area to pick up the sucker rods and parts for the old windmill. Paul and Ellen at American Windmills were very helpful in fixing this mill to be much more reliable than it has been in the past. It had previously been repaired every couple of years. Talking to Paul we decided that it was mostly due to using old junk parts in the well part of the pump... 100 year old sucker rods made of rotten wood, etc. A couple of them broke or were broke when we took them out.

I was also told to add a second check valve under the pump as a safety in case one had any kind of problem... the second one would work as a backup and you would still pump... the check valve in the bottom of the pump cylinder can become dislodged by the plunger as it is meant to be removed with the plunger. it is threaded but more often than not it is dislodged unintentionally as the threads lock together and pull it loose when not expected .. cool idea but in reality it is likely responsible for a lot of failures too....

The top before was 3/8 standard pipe and couplings for sucker rod... get rid of that they said... I agreed... let's make this thing work for several years instead of two. I am replacing all of the sucker rod... wood and steel with 5/8 fiberglass rod with guides on it.

Got the load of that today.

Also we are changing to a packer at the top to make this into a closed system. That way it will be safe to use as a potable drinking water source too.

I love driving through the Gold Country... here is a panorama of Angels Camp... actually a straight road but I had to pivot to take the shot so it looks like a corner... neat town...

glenn kangiser · August 01, 2013, 02:45:16 PM

Yesterday evening Bossy and the other cows along with Mr Ed came up for hay. She brought along a little surprise...

What a good little cow. [ouch]

August 01, 2013, 09:03:55 PM

Glenn is a good pix, and congratulations on your new cow!
I always saw these mills out there but never knew how it works, but should be a good and simple way to have water, my father had an artesian well with electric pump, I was a kid and I remember when they did the pit, and were drilling water was brackish after a 200 meter deep freshwater found, we lived in a region on the coast (Guaratuba - PR) a place which at the time had a lot of snakes.

It was a short period about 2 years but I have good memories!

rick91351 · August 01, 2013, 11:48:22 PM

Quote from: Antonio Carlos Machado on August 01, 2013, 09:03:55 PM

....................................................snip........
It was a short period about 2 years but I have good memories!

Treasure the memories my friend - treasure the memories!!

glenn kangiser · August 03, 2013, 01:47:12 AM

I should try to remember to take pix of the windmill parts before I put it back together tomorrow....

Possibly I can do that...

Nice they were able to find fresh water Tony. We have areas of saltwater in the valley... In cable tool drilling we can Isolate high TDS - total dissolved solids water and go through it down to softer water below many times.

ben2go · August 03, 2013, 10:50:20 AM

Is that windmill old enough to have leather seals in it?

August 06, 2013, 11:57:18 AM

Yes Ben. About 100 years old. There are 4 leather seals.. 1 on the check valve at the bottom - snug interference fit in place and 3 on the pumping cylinder check/piston that goes up and down with the mill.

another shot...

I put the new blades I made on the mill yesterday.

Here are two of them.

Here is my friend and his Grandson putting new bolts in the blades. [ouch]

glenn kangiser · August 07, 2013, 07:43:26 PM

I finished the Windmill last night...

I laid out the packer and got the length right for cutting the threaded connection rod. We put the pump in earlier and came out within a few inches...actually I expected it to be exactly where it came out on the sucker rod. The threaded rod connects to the bottom of the packer rod and the sucker rod at the bottom of the stroke on both, then the entire sucker rod is pulled up the distance you desire to give room at the top and bottom of the stroke when the windmill is in operation. We used 3 inches then with the 7 inch stroke of the mill we had 10" to the top of the stroke leaving us another 3 inches above the top of the stroke clear.

The cylinder on the bottom had 17 inches to play in so no problem there. Up three inches off of the bottom plus 7 inch stroke left us 7 inches at the top.

Only enough wind to get it to make a few strokes but it seems all is in order to bring water up from the bottom

ben2go · August 07, 2013, 10:31:58 PM

Do you know the specs on the well and pump?Is it irrigation only or pipped to fill the family cistern?

glenn kangiser · August 07, 2013, 11:09:52 PM

I don't know the gpm of the well but it is 223ft 8 inches deep with water standing at 188 feet. We set the bottom of the pump foot valve at about 221 feet. with the cylinder being 8 feet up due to us having 210 feet of sucker rod. It will pump right down to the bottom of the tail pipe and foot valve, Ben.

I completely rebuilt the cylinder and check valve in the bottom of it. The local pump company told me the plastic check valve was as good as the brass one because that was all he had... ... but that would be if you were not me I guess. I put some pipe dope on it -- tightened it down with a couple wrenches and promptly snapped it in half... quite easily too... [ouch]

I knew the hardware store had a brass one so about three hours later my buddy returned with it.

At 15 miles per hour wind speed, the 10 foot mill is spec'ed to produce about 100 gallons per hour from about 300 feet. We have a 1 7/8 cylinder so that should be close. We are likely only going to average a 200 foot or so pumping depth with drawdown but that is just a guess.

glenn kangiser · August 07, 2013, 11:22:16 PM

This mill is rated at 3/5 horsepower at 15mph wind speed per the catalog. I managed to find the catalog online and printed one for me and one for my customer.

The primary purpose of this windmill is to pump water for cattle, but the daughter lives up the hill a ways and her well is short water so she may get water from this windmill also.

August 08, 2013, 12:30:55 AM

What a great project. Bringing an old lady back to life. Thanks for posting that classic bit of technology.

rick91351 · August 08, 2013, 06:01:57 AM

Interesting Glenn... There is a crank shaft in the windmill head is there not? In the old days before sealed roller bearings and all I would assume it was an oil bath and babbitt bearings?

ben2go · August 08, 2013, 12:10:31 PM

Thanks for the info.I am very interested in those old pumper mills.I have only seen one east of the Mississippi and it's a couple miles from me.It finally rusted and fell to the ground,where it was eventually cut up and hauled away. $:-\$ The pump head still looked good.The tower and rotor blade assembly where shot.

glenn kangiser · August 08, 2013, 05:19:51 PM

My pleasure, John. I did the labor at about half price just so he would repair the windmill rather than replace it with a solar pump.

I would have gotten some work either way but I wanted to see the windmill working again.

Here is a link to the entire Catalog that focuses on this windmill and its brothers... You can print it from the PDF using fit to page on the printer for a nice 40 some page catalog showing all of the internal parts of the mill as well as towers and other mill models. This one is the 10 foot Elgin Wonder Model B.

http://www.lovingcreek.com/dentonffa/1924ElginWindmill/elgincatalogue.pdf

This has the pumping specifications for differing depths and cylinder sizes also.

The view from Mt Bullion Ridge into the Merced River Canyon is awesome.

glenn kangiser · August 08, 2013, 05:57:54 PM

Rick, there are big double gears and Pittman arms coming off of the side of them going to the Walking Beam that raises and lowers the pump.

Looks like Hyatt roller bearings or Fiber bearings - double long, Rick. Mostly steel rather than cast iron too.

It does all run in oil which was a great improvement over the ones that had to be greased every so often and was one of their selling points.

GSPDOG · August 09, 2013, 05:28:38 PM

Love the windmill where did you find it at?

August 10, 2013, 01:54:43 AM

This windmill has been on top of Mt Bullion for years and years. My friend, Richard owns it and was contemplating replacing it with a solar pump. We talked it over and I agreed to repair it for a relatively low price just to keep the old girl in operation.

We went back up there this afternoon after herding cattle around the ranch a bit. Seems there are always a couple details to take care of before we get to what we want to do. [ouch]

It is about an hour motorcycle ride up there ... maybe a bit less... one way.

Richard was excited today as we rounded the corner and he saw the windmill pumping away and water coming out of the pipe. I was riding a motorcycle behind his quad and he turned around and gave me a big thumbs up.

A short video.....click the picture below to view

We found that the problem with the tail being over center was just because the furling mechanism was too loose. After tightening it to the proper tension the tail was centered yet it could furl in a high wind.

We checked out a few more things and noted materials we needed to get it hooked up for the cattle. We measured the flow at a low wind condition at about 40 gallons per hour.

Windpower · August 10, 2013, 05:56:09 AM

I found all the parts needed for hooking up my windmill

<---- pictured here

the sucker rods are very expensive from Lehmans but I found the old ones in the garage in working condition (a bit rusted) along with the pipe

this one has a vent pipe to keep it from freezing in Wisconsin winters -- I need to figure out how it works too

one of these days I am going to pull the pipe and install my rebuilt cylinder and get this one working

thanks for the tutorial --

ben2go · August 10, 2013, 10:55:05 AM

Hey Glenn,how is that pump regulated to shut off water flow once the tank if full.40gph is pretty good in a light wind.I bet it would easily double that in a steady strong wind.

glenn kangiser · August 10, 2013, 12:19:00 PM

I hope you get it going Windpower. It was a fun project. I wonder if it has a bleed off to slowly drain the water back into the well when not pumping?

Ben, this one is not currently regulated to shut off but since we put a stuffing box or packer at the top it can pressure into a storage tank up hill for use when there is not wind... Manual shutoff currently but there was a device shown in the PDF catalog above for shutting off the windmill. Currently this one would just overflow into the meadow.

She's alive.... a living breathing pumping windmill....

Cool... Google made a motion picture of this for me... not even sure how or why..I didn't ask... mysterious... what can they do with us?

It mentioned it did it from multiple pictures I took though I didn't do it in a burst... maybe now that I know they will do that I can do a burst shot for a better one next time. [ouch]

Windpower · August 10, 2013, 01:08:19 PM

I got some bad pics of the valve

it looks like it is a primitive valve to drain the top 10 feet with a long rod attached

sorry the pics aren't so good

tthis is 'closed'

the thingy in the center slides up and down

and this is 'open' I think (gonna require a bit of fiddling and research I think)
If you look close you can see a small hole (~1/8") the the 'slide valve' covers or opens

eventually we want to build an old timey looking water tower next to the windmill I think your rigging with the packing would work well to pump the water up another 10 or 12 feet above ground