Author Topic: Swedish Platform Framing  (Read 4215 times)

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Offline Abbey

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Swedish Platform Framing
« on: March 29, 2013, 09:16:48 AM »
Hi,

Has anybody here heard of the Swedish Platform Framing or the USA New Wall? I found this on another site while looking into mineral wool insulation.

Offline Don_P

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Re: Swedish Platform Framing
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2013, 12:03:28 PM »
Sounds like a new name for advanced, or OVE, or mod 24... framing. Repackaged every few years under a new name when someone discovers the concept. Or... it could be something completely different  :)

Offline Abbey

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Re: Swedish Platform Framing
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2013, 04:44:51 AM »
Do you think it's something worth investigating and possibly using, or is it creating extra work for little gain?

Offline Don_P

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Re: Swedish Platform Framing
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2013, 09:52:17 AM »
If you're on high speed and have time google it, point to a link and we'll talk about what you find. There are proponents of advanved framing, I'm not one of them but it has its' merits. I lean towards building strength as the first priority, most of what I've seen has another first priority, cost or energy efficiency. I've not seen these terms though so it might be the next sliced bread.

Offline Abbey

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Re: Swedish Platform Framing
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2013, 02:37:18 AM »
Today I'll be looking at the OVE and Mod 24 you had mentioned. Here is the site where I found the Swedish Framing and USA New Wall, it's an architect's blog.

http://blog.lamidesign.com/p/usa-new-wall-info.html

http://blog.lamidesign.com/p/swedish-platform-framing-info.html


Offline Don_P

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Re: Swedish Platform Framing
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2013, 08:09:32 AM »
I didn't go into great depth but from what I see it's not too different from the methods I mentioned. It appears he prefers mineral wool insulation to other forms. Readily available in your area?

The floor system needs some form of lateral bracing to lock the joists upright. If not a rim or perimeter blocking then the requirement needs to be met somewhere nearby. Also, although mineral wool will qualify as firestopping I'd block between floor and wall to positively kill those potential flues. It might be as simple as building a rimmed floor system inside the walls. This is how many old log homes were built. In that case the floor could be relatively easily relevelled inside the log pen. From there I've seen early framing with the joists on a sill log and ballon studs run down alongside them, also resting on that sill. It gave direct access from underfloor to top of wall, not good. The T&G multi piece sill is a cluster, he's advocating panellizing off site, you have some serious crane time. We had one crane operator read an entire novel while we fixed screw ups on one job... at $90/hr. Dad did this is russia in Feb, sweden would be the same, jobsite time in the bitter cold is a waste of money so panellizing and cranes are more cost effective. We tried it here a couple of times and lost.

Advanced framing, or whatever we want to call it, has less redundancy, to build a strong structure requires more thought and attention than conventional framing. I bite my tongue more than you ever know on framing pics here and focus on the worst problems. Should a novice try to whittle that structure down further? Prescriptively, the second floor cannot rest on a tacked on ledger in the US, the joists must also be attached to the studs to tie the building together where possible in balloon framing. I didn't see these strengths in that system. Finishes very often wave on 24" framing, which is generally the backlash when 24" framing is introduced, wavy walls. A few of the downsides are sort of blown up in his blog. Yes we learned to detail rim areas... were you planning a deck? Why would a double sill be superior to a single? The only thing that would accomplish is more vertical settling. I'm picking, he tripped my warning light. Think it all through, an alternative needs to be at least equivalent to prescriptive construction. Legally the burden of proof of that is on the applicant. That was two issues, first you need to know in detail what you are being equivalent to and second you may need to hire someone to show proof. I've had building officials look at what I want to do and say "we both know its BS but you need to go get this stamped so I can approve it." I'm just gearing you up for those potential costs. A large portion of my work has been non prescriptive, no problem with that but it isn't the cheap path in my experience. Just from a practical point I use an engineer for that work not an architect. Do you see a stick frame roof being compared to a raised heel truss there to juice up a point... nuff said.

One thing I've seen pros and inspectors comment on many times is that it is those with little to no experience are the ones to latch on to the latest new thing. Part of why the pros don't jump at every passing thing is healthy skepticism. Part of that is efficiency, tradesmen know how to do things the conventional way, hopefully. Part of it is responsibility, my dad tried an energy efficiency technique in the '60's-'70's, he was repairing into the 80's. I've used the modified version a number of times. Thanks Dad and all those guinea pigs, they allow my generation to do it right. If you build more than one wrong that guinea pigging can be very expensive. Can you afford to be the guinea pig and do you have what it takes to go back in and fix potential problems? We do go to school on those that want to forge new ground, when it is novices and there is a failure sometimes it is a failure of that system but as often it is a failure of ability and that system can be incorrectly blamed. You won't have anything reliable to fall back on, you are on your own. Oh there will be voices, mine among them, they won't know though. Do you understand conventional construction in detail? From that basis of understanding you can move forward with something under you... IMO. Without that and venturing into new ground, I think you are narrowing the chances of a good outcome. Reasonably performed conventional work outperforms poorly done alternative work in every way. These methods can and do work, the devil as always is in the details. Decide what it is you are trying to accomplish with an alternative method. More alternative methods, a larsen truss is one alternative. Or, why have the framing and thermal bridging within the wall at all, timberframe and sips or wrap and strap.

Critique...BYOB, PWYW  ;D
« Last Edit: April 01, 2013, 08:36:14 AM by Don_P »

Offline Abbey

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Re: Swedish Platform Framing
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2013, 09:33:55 AM »
Thanks for such a well thought out reply. I have some construction experience, worked for a guy doing framing, built a garage, and the place I live in now, so I have a little more experience than someone who's done none of the above. I've also worked in the insulation field for a year. Been reading about what you mentioned and it does sound similar with what this guy is talking about, with some differences. Between the two what I'm getting is put extra time in planning and think ahead, as much as possible. I can get mineral wool with no problem and have also been reading about that. Where I am I don't have to worry about permits or dealing with that governmental apparatus.

What I want to do is design the house I want and build it as inexpensively as possible doing all of it myself, or at least as much as I can, and have it built right so I don’t need to go back and fix things as they come up. That’s why I’ll probably be asking a lot of questions , hopefully not too silly questions.

 

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