One more time, please

Started by Arky217, October 06, 2012, 09:05:55 PM

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Arky217

Thanks to everyone who commented on my previous posts about my proposed plumbing.
I have redrawn the plumbing and changed a number of things, so I thought it might be best
to ask for new comments in a new post.
Hopefully, I have everything close to kosher this time and would really appreciate your evaluation one more time.

A couple of comments to make the drawing a little clearer:

Sink #1 is the kitchen sink, #2 is the bathroom sink and, of course, the bath sink, commode and tub are in the same room;
they're shown like they are on the sketch just for clarity in how the piping is run.

All horizonal drain and vent runs have the standard 1/4" per foot slope.
The horizonal drain pipes tee into the verticals with a sanitary tee.
The vertical drain pipes tee into the 3" main with combo wye tees.

Increased the main vertical vent from 2" to 3" (It seems to me, however, that the 2" would work just as well, seeing as
how the toilet vent would also be getting venting from the tub and kitchen sink vents; would that not be so ?)

The kitchen sink horizon drain is now 36" instead of 66" and the vent goes 45 degrees for about 2 feet before going vertical within the wall.
(I understand that 45 degrees and steeper for vents is considered vertical)
The horizonal and 45 degree runs will be hidden within the sink cabinet base.
The vent does reduce to 1.5" through the top of the wall to clear a truss that is directly over the wall
(I know, I should have caught that before placing the wall), but since it is venting only the kitchen sink, hopefully 1.5" is sufficient.

Increase the final vent pipe to 4" to come closer to the sq." area of both 3" vents going into it.
(Not sure but if stayed 3", would it still have been sufficient ?)

From the toilet to the main stack, changed from a 90 degree elbow going into a combo tee wye, to a 45 degree elbow going
into a wye. Is that kosher, or should I have left it with a 90 into combo ? (Just seems like the 45 and wye is more of a straight shot)

The main cleanout is not actually under the house;
it will extend about 3 or 4 feet via a 22.5 degree elbow to the edge of the crawl space.

One last thing; I have included cleanouts as shown on the sinks and tub. Should I also add a cleanout just below the toilet
45 degree elbow or is that a short enough and vertical enough run not to need one ?


Thanks very much in advance for your comments,
Arky



Arky217

I would appreciate one last review of my plumbing layout.
Thank you for your previous comments.

Some changes are:

By repositioning the kitchen sink slightly, I was able to keep the trap arm within the max 60" length. And was able to keep the vent size 2" by locating it on the other
side of the wall in the pantry room (not ideal, but will not be too noticable behind shelving).

The bath sink, of course, is actually on the other side of the vertical 2", in the bathroom by the toilet.

I decided to go through the roof afterall with the main vent, right next to the ridge.

On the tub, I will put the trap within the floor joists; even though the crawlspace
is open, the insulation between the joists should keep it from freezing (I'm in
Arkansas, so it shouldn't be a problem).

The clean outs are marked C.O. and the one at the end of the main 3" line as well as the double clean out will be outside the perimeter of the crawlspace.

Do you see anything that might give me problems ?

Thanks,
Arky



Redoverfarm

Not real sure what you are calling a "double cleanout".  I hope you are not referring to having that clean out in both directions.  If..... you turn it towards the house that will be a probable trouble spot.   Just use a long sweeping Elbow towards the septic.  Any clogs from that towards the house can be cleaned out via the clean out on the end of the main line in the crawlspace.

Ideally you do not want a drain empting into a vent for another appliance.  I think that is what is happening on the sink and commode at the right side of your picture. If a clog would develope between the sink and commode your toilet would not work properly.

Arky217

Quote from: Redoverfarm on October 11, 2012, 04:21:47 PM
Not real sure what you are calling a "double cleanout".  I hope you are not referring to having that clean out in both directions.  If..... you turn it towards the house that will be a probable trouble spot.   Just use a long sweeping Elbow towards the septic.  Any clogs from that towards the house can be cleaned out via the clean out on the end of the main line in the crawlspace.

Ideally you do not want a drain empting into a vent for another appliance.  I think that is what is happening on the sink and commode at the right side of your picture. If a clog would develope between the sink and commode your toilet would not work properly.

Thanks for the comments.

Actually on the double cleanout, I was going to just use a combo pointed towards the septic
and the cleanout on the other end for the main drain. (Neither is actually under the house, they
are outside the perimeter of the house) But I kept getting comments from other forums that I should
have a double cleanout just outside where the main drain exits the house.
Since the pipe at that location will be just barely below the ground, you could make the cleanout
snake go either way, but the gentle sweep of a combo would make it easier. I may reconsider on
this.

On the sink drain into the toilet vent, much of what I've read states that is the preferred method
(wet venting the toilet) because it helps by additionally washing the toilet drain.
(If the sink drain/toilet vent did stop up, I would be fixing it right away anyway.)

Arky

Redoverfarm

Quote from: Arky217 on October 11, 2012, 05:22:24 PM
Thanks for the comments.

Actually on the double cleanout, I was going to just use a combo pointed towards the septic
and the cleanout on the other end for the main drain. (Neither is actually under the house, they
are outside the perimeter of the house) But I kept getting comments from other forums that I should
have a double cleanout just outside where the main drain exits the house.
Since the pipe at that location will be just barely below the ground, you could make the cleanout
snake go either way, but the gentle sweep of a combo would make it easier. I may reconsider on
this.

On the sink drain into the toilet vent, much of what I've read states that is the preferred method
(wet venting the toilet) because it helps by additionally washing the toilet drain.
(If the sink drain/toilet vent did stop up, I would be fixing it right away anyway.)

Arky

Maybe I am misunderstanding your explanation but most elbows("T'") used in cleanouts and other applications are what is referred to as "Sanitary" T's meaning they only allow material to flow in one direction to prevent blockages.  You will have more material passing through the pipe other than water   [toilet] and the potential is there for it to want to hang up if conditions were right by having a protruding edge which you most likely will have.  I can see the need for the septic direction cleanout but with a 50'=100' tape from the opposite end will easily reach anything from that point to the outside cleanout and will keep things flowing.






NM_Shooter

Hmmmm..... I thought that a vent at the far end of the drain pipe was required?  No?
"Officium Vacuus Auctorita"

Redoverfarm

Frank there is one on the far left above the cleanout.  Maybe you are looking at a similar blue line as the waste line which I believe is showing the floor elevation above the crawlspace. 

NM_Shooter

I saw that... but I thought that the very last vent in the run had to exit directly through the roof. 

As a side question, I also thought that the very last vent had to be a little larger than 2".  So the furthest stack from the drain line exit had to be 3", and exit directly up. 
"Officium Vacuus Auctorita"

Redoverfarm

Quote from: NM_Shooter on October 12, 2012, 10:47:31 AM
I saw that... but I thought that the very last vent in the run had to exit directly through the roof. 

As a side question, I also thought that the very last vent had to be a little larger than 2".  So the furthest stack from the drain line exit had to be 3", and exit directly up.

Not sure about that one. Miss having Scott_A on here to keep things straight.  I would say that if one vent line was all you had on the main through the roof you would probably be correct.  Seeing as he does have the vent from the main vent line to the beginning of the line he should be OK.  He will not be "vapor locked" for a lack of technical terms as it will allow air behind the water which is necessary to assist the water exiting.  Gurgling sinks/toilets is a good indication that it is not vented.