Author Topic: The planning phases  (Read 5278 times)

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Offline Madison1993

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The planning phases
« on: March 15, 2016, 12:11:39 PM »
Hello, I'm currently in process of planning a home build. Problem is, I don't know where to start.

I've currently been looking at land (Utah), I've been researching septic and well installations and have contacted several companies with good BBB ratings.

I'm trying to understand how much money is going to what, what's reasonable and what's not.

The house: this is where I'm at a loss. Is there a commonly used place to find home plans and if so what does it include?

I'm trying to find out what material I would need and how much, for the shell of my home. Insulation, electric, and plumbing not included.

I'm wanting a two - three bedroom / 1 bath house.
I'm open to a two floor house on the contingency the master is on the first floor.
Would a two story be harder to install a roof compared to a one story. What about a one and a half?

What are the most informative resources you have used in your home building process?
How did you decide certain products to use?



Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: The planning phases
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2016, 05:32:12 PM »
There is a free construction cost estimating web site here: http://www.building-cost.net/

You can start with something very basic such as a single story building with four corners.  Select the cheapest materials (Category 6) and you will get a sense for what it will cost to build the absolute minimum.  I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the estimates but others have recommended this site for a good starting point.

Costs will go up, because most folks want something nicer than the absolute cheapest in flooring, cabinetry, plumbing fixtures, etc.  People make their choices for what to build with and how to decorate on a lot of different factors including cost, aesthetics, ease of construction, fire resistance, etc.   Do a Google search for floor plans and you'll get more links than you know what to do with.
My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

Offline rick91351

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Re: The planning phases
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2016, 07:41:36 PM »
First off  w* from the state to the north.....

I would first stop by the country offices or give them a call which ever county you are interested in.  Ask them what is required for snow loads and wind loads.  Some areas like up around Park City and such might require a lot of engineering. Down south where your not looking at five or ten foot of snow engineering doubtfully would be much of a requirement if any.  The reason I bring this up is if you are looking at one of those required engineering counties and you buy a set of plans from say ABC Floor and House Plans and you take them in to pull permits you have wasted your $$$.  You will have to have them redrawn with the engineering and stamped.  SO find out if they require a set of stamped plans. That occurred to the first set of plans we bought.  Builder Bob the Building Inspector refused to even unroll them without an engineer stamp ...... 

If you are planing DIY you most likely will have to have all the money saved or have some creative bankers. Banks and lending institutions do not like Owner - Builders as a rule.

As far a sources and resources and how to this forum has helped a lot of people get their houses and cabins built.  There is several good books on building sort of Framing 101 I would start there buy one of those.  John how owns this forum has a bookstore if you have not stumbled on to it yet. 
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Offline Madison1993

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Re: The planning phases
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2016, 08:00:29 AM »
Thanks  :)

Where does everyone like to get supplies , what work did you contract out and if so why

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: The planning phases
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2016, 08:55:00 AM »
I'm a do-it-yourself person who has a hard time hiring someone else to do a job that I am perfectly capable of doing.  My wife however likes to see jobs completed on a timely schedule, so when we do remodeling we have a little tug of war on deciding what to farm out to a pro.  The scale of the work is one consideration, and the limits of your ability is another.  For most home projects I've seen where the owner is the general contractor, most if not all work leading up to dry-in is hired out.  If you've got the skills to do some of the work, you will save money by doing it yourself instead of paying someone else's labor.  What that costs you is time, and you will likely do the same work much slower than a pro because you lack their experience and equipment.  In most jurisdictions the local building code will require certain jobs be done by a licensed professional.

As far as building materials go, for a major construction project you will probably want to set up an account with a local supplier.  I find that my locally owned building supply store delivers better quality lumber than the big box stores (Lowes. Home Depot, Menard's).  They will likely also have better personal service and be able to deliver to your construction site.  No guarantee of course, but that's what I see in my area.  I haven't selected a supplier yet but will do so once I complete my materials list.  I'll then get a quote from several stores on the whole package including delivery.  Then it will come down to balancing cost against quality and service.  On house construction, it isn't always the best idea to go with the cheapest option.  The time saved by hiring some work out may be far more precious than the financial cost of that work.
My cabin build thread: Alaskan remote 16x28 1.5 story

Offline rick91351

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Re: The planning phases
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2016, 09:13:24 AM »
Thanks  :)

Where does everyone like to get supplies , what work did you contract out and if so why

Lots got to the Big Box Stores.....  Me, I am a limber yard hardware store freak.....  I despise the box stores.  I have used the same stores forever so it seems - I am Rick when I walk in - how was the drive - got any snow? Summer turns into how is fishing?  Later on hey we seen you have a fire close to you. How close did it get?  Hunting season same stuff....

I bought reject doors from him about 25 cent on the dollar.  The house they were ordered for was misframed for the door sizes so he was stuck with them.  (Knotty Alder).  Pantry door in the kitchen I was digging through more rejects can not remember what I gave for it. I tell lots of people go in and give them you plans they will work up a housing package and often give you a builders discount.  This is good for your house and often you are 'stuck with it' forever. so you want to build a shed, a barn, a shop.  Applies to paint - hardware and you glean the knowledge of others.

I myself or we - subed-out  a lot of the trades ie plumbing, electrical, HVAC, because one matter of time. We were heading in the the late fall and winter.  Started framing in early September. We had to get this dried in wired and plumbed so we could work in the inside.  I can wire to code but I am slow.....  so called Electric Ray!  I bought the supplies he and his apprentice wired for me. So I paid him so much an hour.  I cannot plumb - no way - and I do not want to learn plumbing 101.  The two plumbers (father and  son) argued over code and when they changed that constantly.  Good move on my part....  HVAC that was a no brainer hire that done.  They ran the Manual J. Submitted the paperwork got the engineers stamp. Did all the duct work and set the air flow.  Set the heat pump and installed the wood stove.  (Sort of the wood stove).  Then that out of the way I come to insulation we are dried in.  I am talking to a couple contractors I know and they say hire it done hands down and use _____ .  He does stuff no one else does and the inspectors love him they trust him....  and will not cost you much more than DIY.  That went smooth.  No way was I going to do the sheet rock.  They are in and out and clean up their mess and it is done right and seamless.  Hey I have sheet rocked no way am I going to do a 2200 sq ft. house.  My sheet rocker dropped out due to a building boom in the Sun Valley - Ketchem  area.  So my insulation guy rounded me up a sheet rocker locally.  I had the floors sanded and finished.

Here is my / our story and some how and why and other stuff we do.....

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=12965.msg168713#msg168713               
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Offline Madison1993

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Re: The planning phases
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2016, 11:53:28 AM »
I've been look threw your build for a while. What's the expression about the best laid plans? I feel like you did a good job rolling with it!

I've been looking at local places for supplies. I was able to purchase 2 big windows 5' x6'  double paned low e and vertical sliders 75$ total. It was a mismeasured project and since its a slow season its been sitting there.

I am just trying too figure out which supplies are best. Durableness, energy efficient, ease of delivery or self transport , affordability. Those are my factors

Offline Madison1993

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Re: The planning phases
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2016, 11:55:50 AM »
Do the house plan engineers/architect make the material list and foundation design specifications?

I'm at a loss how people know what to buy (mostly) and how to build the foundation.

Offline rick91351

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Re: The planning phases
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2016, 02:55:12 PM »
I've been look threw your build for a while. What's the expression about the best laid plans? I feel like you did a good job rolling with it!

I've been looking at local places for supplies. I was able to purchase 2 big windows 5' x6'  double paned low e and vertical sliders 75$ total. It was a mismeasured project and since its a slow season its been sitting there.

I am just trying too figure out which supplies are best. Durableness, energy efficient, ease of delivery or self transport , affordability. Those are my factors

One problem I remember with windows is you need a to have the sicker or the energy savings for the building inspector.  (Here in Idaho)

As far as what you need: You can sometimes find plans with the materials list. Or as I say drop them off at the lumber yard and they will figure up a framing package.  Foundations are easy if - you do a little study.  Pier and post most places that require inspections require them to be engineered.  I think now if I had this to do over I would poured a slab.  Mt Don changed my mind on them about a year ago.   Another thing as with most things there are 100 ways to do anything.  Framing is the sameway.  You might figure 200 exterior studs. 2X6's  but you end up with five too many or ten not enough.  Then trim ends they go into a pile.  With today's modern framing requirements most all of them get used some where for blocking.  Sort of like the old German butchers I knew as a kid who could use everything from pig but the OINK so they would claim  ;)
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Offline Don_P

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Re: The planning phases
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2016, 07:14:56 PM »
Do the house plan engineers/architect make the material list and foundation design specifications?

I'm at a loss how people know what to buy (mostly) and how to build the foundation.

Some random "how stuff works"
Engineers/architects are RDP's, registered design professionals. If you need a stamp you need one of these guys, very often an architect will send his work to an engineer. An architect tends to be a generalist where an engineer focuses on drilling down to the root of every nail. Either can generate materials lists, but I don't like adding hours to their bill! On my current project we needed good ideas, that was an architect. We hired him for a set of general concept drawings, then took his ideas and created our own details and modifications. At certain points I've called in for various items to be engineered.  I could also hire an EOR, engineer of record, to oversee the entire project and make sure every nail is checked, that all the details mesh. I've never felt the need for that level of oversight on a regular job, but I have had as many as 3 engineers doing their part on a job but not co-ordinating between what each was doing, the EOR would do that co-ordinating. We're building the Biltmore there though, just kind of the full spectrum of that part.

Next are "home designers" unlicensed draftspeople. Nothing wrong with that in residential in many/most places. If they step outside of prescriptive code... the charts and tables in the codebook, then they need to have an RDP check that portion of the work. You, or I, or the kid at the drive in window at Wendy's, or a highly trained draftsman are home designers. Buyer beware but this is where most home designs come from.

The foundation is usually one to hire out, it is tough, heavy, thankless work. Like Rick said, most building supplys will do a materials take-off, some charge for the service and refund it if you order the framing package from them (reasonable, it takes hours to do).

Offline rick91351

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Re: The planning phases
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2016, 05:02:53 AM »
There is another thing I might like to toss into this curious stew is when figuring out subing out and what you can do and can't.

I have seen more than one cabin or home on this forum and in real life come to a complete standstill.  The issue of free labor.....  You know the my buddies and I are going build me a cabin....  Whoa stop right there.  You are the owner and the builder.  Do not count on.... buddies, guys from work, the church or the bar, nor brothers and brothers in laws, fathers nor father in laws. Wives can be depended on maybe or sort of.  This house we live in now is also a labor of her love.

But I have a contractor friend that says he has had to patch up and remodel more that one marriage in the process of getting a house done so that he can get paid and on with his life.  In short deeply discount free labor that is going to help you frame or pour cement or  ???.  Another thing just because your brother in law says he knows how to frame does not mean he really knows how to frame.  And if you don't know how to frame without researching and there is a ton of good you tubes out there free to watch.  And you suddenly find yourself depending on a brother in law who once build a chicken coop ......  Get my drift.....  Once again you are the owner builder.       
Proverbs 24:3-5 Through wisdom is an house builded; an by understanding it is established.  4 And by knowledge shall the chambers be filled with all precious and pleasant riches.  5 A wise man is strong; yea, a man of knowledge increaseth strength.

Offline MushCreek

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Re: The planning phases
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2016, 01:48:08 AM »
I built our house, pretty much single-handed. It's a slow process working alone; it took me 4 years to build the house and barn. I hired out excavation, concrete, footings, and drywall. I avoid big box stores whenever possible. The local lumber yards have better stuff, and will beat the prices of the big boys. Special supplies, like re-bar, steel studs, drywall are MUCH cheaper buying from places that specialize in them. Nail gun nails are much cheaper on-line. Hardware in general is very expensive at big box stores. The only thing I found cheaper was electrical wire. I couldn't find cheaper prices anywhere than Lowe's or Home Depot. They get you on devices, though- receptacles, switches, etc. I shop around a LOT- on-line, specialty suppliers, ebay, craigslist, you name it. I found my fiber cement siding for 25 cents on the dollar. I bought 10 matching antique doors for $10 each. My kitchen sinks were sourced on ebay. We bought appliances from AJ Madison for less than anyone local- including delivery! I even bought my HVAC equipment on-line.

Here's my build thread, but it's a different method of construction than most. Still, it shows what a determined old man can do.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=12170.0
Jay

I'm not poor- I'm financially underpowered.

 

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