Author Topic: Gadhafi Assassinated  (Read 17780 times)

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Offline UK4X4

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2011, 02:56:10 PM »
America -did not kill Gadaffi

his own people did -

after living for years in a police state - people scared to speak out - and only the privelidged few allowed to travel abroad to study.

The uprising in Tunisia next door gave the people the confidence to finally stand up and free their country

No matter what support he gave to terrorists - his secret police dished out worse to his own people.

I had Libyans staying in my house as I grew up studying english- none returned home- they applied for and got Politcal asylum in the UK

In the 90's I worked there for 3 months on and off- BBC world news was cut from the programming - you could watch the rest of that channel - but the news was cut.

people lived in fear of the secret police- his green book self governing committees were a joke - with the subjects of discussion being controled.

Every Libyan I ever met wanted him out- mind you this was only discussed out of earshot of anyone.

each time I visited I had the same Secret police follow me everywhere- to the point where I knew who he was
his long coat became my shadow- even on one trip where I had issues in Tunisia and changed my route Via Malta and the ferry instead of the drive across the desert - the same guy was there waiting for me on the docks.

Everyone in crowd had a grudge to settle with Ghadaffi and it simply happened-
no conspirousy theories or special forces

just his people that had had enough !

was Nato and the US involved - yes -did we help tip the balance yes- was it right to do - I think so-

 





Offline ScottA

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2011, 02:57:43 PM »
Land grab? Oil? Late on his Visa bill?  Why do you think he was targeted?  

It's a complex issue but basicly all of these wars over the past 10 years or so have been about supporting the value of the dollar. One of the main ways the dollar is given value is by forcing the world to pay for oil in dollars. This creates a demand for dollars. I also maintain that getting oil is not always the goal of invading these oil producing nations. Often it's simply to keep their oil off the market for a time to keep the price up. The more oil costs the more demand there is for dollars. This is why we never saw any real attempt to get Iraq oil to market after the liberation. I suspect you'll see more of the same in Libya. But the jist of all the wars for the past 100+ years has been about who gets to print the money and who is forced to use it. If you can give your money value without actualy having to produce products to buy with it the returns are far greater.

Offline Sassy

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2011, 06:08:56 PM »
Even if we all agree that Gadhafi was a monster, does that justify destroying the infrastructure of a country?  Killing a bunch of civilians?  Oh, forgot, they're just collateral damage...

Here's a good article by Paul Craig Roberts  http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27205#.TqIkuW3qWKY.email

The End of History: Now that the CIA’s proxy army has murdered Gadhafi, what next for Libya?

by Paul Craig Roberts

Global Research, October 21, 2011

If Washington’s plans succeed, Libya will become another American puppet state. Most of the cities, towns, and infrastructure have been destroyed by air strikes by the air forces of the US and Washington’s NATO puppets.  US and European firms will now get juicy contracts, financed by US taxpayers, to rebuild Libya.  The new real estate will be carefully allocated to lubricate a new ruling class picked by Washington.  This will put Libya firmly under Washington’s thumb.

With Libya conquered, AFRICOM will start on the other African countries where China has energy and mineral investments. Obama has already sent US troops to Central Africa under the guise of defeating the Lord’s Resistance Army, a small insurgency against the ruling dictator-for-life.  The Republican Speaker of the House, John Boehner, welcomed the prospect of yet another war by declaring that sending US troops into Central Africa “furthers US national security interests and foreign policy.” Republican Senator James Inhofe added a gallon of moral verbiage about saving “Ugandan children,” a concern the senator did not have for Libya’s children or Palestine’s, Iraq’s, Afghanistan’s and Pakistan’s. 

Washington has revived the Great Power Game and is vying with China.  Whereas China brings Africa investment and gifts of infrastructure, Washington sends troops, bombs and military bases.  Sooner or later Washington’s aggressiveness toward China and Russia is going to explode in our faces.

Where is the money going to come from to finance Washington’s African Empire?  Not from Libya’s oil. Big chunks of that have been promised to the French and British for providing cover for Washington’s latest war of naked aggression. Not from tax revenues from a collapsing US economy where unemployment, if measured correctly, is 23 percent.

With Washington’s annual budget deficit as huge as it is, the money can only come from the printing press.

Washington has already run the printing press enough to raise the consumer price index for all urban consumers (CPI-U) to 3.9% for the year (as of the end of September), the consumer price index for urban wage earners and clerical workers (CPI-W) to 4.4% for the year, and the producer price index (PPI)  to 6.9% for the year.

As statistician John Williams (shadowstats.com) has shown, the official inflation measures are rigged in order to hold down cost of living adjustments to Social Security recipients, thus saving money for Washington’s wars.  When measured correctly, the current rate of inflation in the US is 11.5%.

What interest rate can savers get without taking massive risks on Greek bonds? US banks pay less than one-half of one percent on FDIC insured savings deposits. Short-term US government bond funds pay essentially zero. 

Thus, according to official US government statistics American savers are losing between 3.9% and 4.4% of their capital yearly.  According to John Williams’ estimate of the real rate of inflation, US savers are losing 11.5% of their accumulated savings.

As retired Americans receive no interest on their savings, they are having to spend down their capital.  The ability of even the most prudent retirees to survive the negative rate of interest they are receiving and the erosion by inflation of any pensions that they receive will come to an end once their accumulated assets are exhausted.

Except for Washington’s favored mega-rich, the one percent that has captured all of the income gains of recent years, the rest of America has been assigned to the trash can. Nothing whatsoever has been done for them since the financial crisis hit in December 2007. Bush and Obama, Republican and Democrat, have focused on saving the 1 percent while giving the finger to the 99 percent.

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Offline Native_NM

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #28 on: October 23, 2011, 10:06:27 AM »
It's a complex issue but basicly all of these wars over the past 10 years or so have been about supporting the value of the dollar. One of the main ways the dollar is given value is by forcing the world to pay for oil in dollars. This creates a demand for dollars. I also maintain that getting oil is not always the goal of invading these oil producing nations. Often it's simply to keep their oil off the market for a time to keep the price up. The more oil costs the more demand there is for dollars. This is why we never saw any real attempt to get Iraq oil to market after the liberation. I suspect you'll see more of the same in Libya. But the jist of all the wars for the past 100+ years has been about who gets to print the money and who is forced to use it. If you can give your money value without actualy having to produce products to buy with it the returns are far greater.

There is some truth here - dollars are really nothing more than warrants for oil. 
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Offline MountainDon

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #29 on: October 23, 2011, 11:13:17 AM »
I see an inconsistency.

In this topic some condemn the killing of Gaddafi, who acted like a thug, keeping his people in line with violence and threats.

Then there's another topic where a 66 yr old woman shoots and kills an intruder, a thug, is applauded by some of those same people.

At least I'm consistent; I applaud the elderly lady and I applaud the demise of Gaddafi. Good riddance to both.
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Offline ScottA

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2011, 11:19:07 AM »
I see an inconsistency.

In this topic some condemn the killing of Gaddafi, who acted like a thug, keeping his people in line with violence and threats.

Then there's another topic where a 66 yr old woman shoots and kills an intruder, a thug, is applauded by some of those same people.

At least I'm consistent; I applaud the elderly lady and I applaud the demise of Gaddafi. Good riddance to both.

I ask, would the 66 yr old lady have been just as justified in going to the thugs house and shooting him?

Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2011, 12:28:24 PM »
I agree - one was self defense.  The other was an assassination (the clean word for premeditated murder).

Quote
Britain's defense secretary, Philip Hammond, said the Libyan revolutionaries' image had been "a little bit stained" by Gadhafi's violent death. Both he and U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said a full investigation is necessary.

http://news.yahoo.com/libya-declared-free-gadhafi-death-questioned-192557748.html      Today from Hillary.


Hillary Clinton Wants Gaddafi Killed

Quote
It was only last week that the US government tried to negatively portray Iran and Iranians by associating them with political assassinations.

It was just this week that US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton openly called for the political assassination of Moammar Gaddafi, the Libyan leader. "We hope he can be captured or killed soon," she said -- while in Libya, to Libyans.

"'We hope he can be captured or killed soon so that you don't have to fear him any longer,' Clinton told students and others at a town hall-style gathering in the capital city [of Libya]," states the Associated Press coverage of Clinton's speech.

It is actually against the law, what the US government is doing.

10-19-11 Quote from Hillary

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shirin-sadeghi/hillary-clinton-wants-gad_b_1020705.html

So - what is going on here with our assassination machine... did she figure out her comments were illegal, or is she afraid it will be justified if the same happens to our leaders?

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Offline Native_NM

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2011, 01:20:41 PM »
First, it was Libyan citizens who killed Gadhafi.  It was Libyans who rose up.  I'm sure it is more fun to believe that the killer was actually a member of the Rothschild family in disguise, aided by a CIA operative, and two Mossad agents wearing trenchcoats and fedora hats.  The reality is different.

In some states, the 66 year old could be face potential prosecution, as the intruder did not actually make into her house.  In fact, in some states, the law would prevent her from even owning a gun.  She shot him through the window.  There is evidence that the man was mentally ill, and should not have been released from prison.  

The value of human life should not vary dependent on political ideology.  



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Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2011, 03:13:42 PM »
Libyan Citizens or NATO Mercs?...  the individuals may have finished the job but this was NATO's kill all the way.  When things went bad for the "rebels" at the start NATO immediately stepped in and proceeded bombing Libya to dust. 

Quote
A Nato airstrike on the vehicles left them badly damaged, but not destroyed, and an injured Gaddafi managed to crawl away to hide inside a storm drain.

Quote
SAS squads hunting Gaddafi for weeks

NATO special forces including the British SAS have been on the ground in Libya since February – long before the beginning of the Orwellian ‘no-fly zone’. These forces set up bases in Libya from which they trained and directed the poorly-trained ‘rebel’ mercenaries being used as pawns to overthrow Gaddafi. The Libya war would not have been possible without the presence of these special forces. NATO airstrikes have been coordinated by these operatives on the ground. Further to this, the incredibly inept ‘rebels’ have proven themselves utterly incapable of achieving and holding a single military or strategic victory against the overwhelming size and breadth of the indigenous Green Libyan Resistance. Operation Mermaid Dawn, coordinated and overtly carried out by Western special forces and soldiers, was an indication of the sheer ineptitude of the tribalists, terrorists and extremists fighting for NATO as ‘Libyan rebels’.

After Operation Mermaid Dawn in August, British SAS soldiers, dressed in civilian Arab garb and carrying the same weaponry as the ‘rebels’, refocused their efforts towards hunting down Muammar Gaddafi. Furthermore, the British media was replete with reports of this special forces activity on Libyan soil.

This theory is bolstered by a recent report from the well-connected Israeli intelligence outfit DEBKAfile. In a report titled ‘After helping to kill Qaddafi, NATO prepares to end Libya mission‘, DEBKA reveals that its military sources indicate Gaddafi was captured and shot by NATO special forces:

    DEBKAfile’s military sources report mounting indications that a NATO special forces unit – although of which nation is unknown – located and captured Muammar Qaddafi in the Sirte area.

    They apparently shot him in both legs to prevent his escape and informed a Misrata militia of his whereabouts, knowing they would kill him in view of the town’s long reckoning with the former Libyan ruler. NATO was guided by two considerations: First not to comprise the presence of ground troops in the battle zone in breach of the alliance’s UN mandate; and second, to give the Libyan rebels a psychological victory – especially after they failed in battle to capture Qaddafi’s home town of Sirte.”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=27236

I doubt that the Israeli DEBKAfile is lying.

The little old lady.... obviously she was concerned about doing the right thing... she called 911. 

Obviously law enforcement should have arrived sooner to protect the life of the criminal who may have been attempting to murder the old lady. The technicality of him being outside the glass trying to break in is not favored by many law officers who are frustrated by the laws that are stacked against them and require them to protect the criminals.  I guess the little old lady should have waited until she was raped or killed to defend herself?

Some places are sane.

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=41196





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Offline Native_NM

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2011, 03:35:55 PM »
To clarify, had his own people risen up and killed him, without assistance from NATO or other outside influence, his killing would have been acceptable to you?   A simple yes or no, please.
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Offline Native_NM

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2011, 04:00:06 PM »

The little old lady.... obviously she was concerned about doing the right thing... she called 911. 

Obviously law enforcement should have arrived sooner to protect the life of the criminal who may have been attempting to murder the old lady. The technicality of him being outside the glass trying to break in is not favored by many law officers who are frustrated by the laws that are stacked against them and require them to protect the criminals.  I guess the little old lady should have waited until she was raped or killed to defend herself?


Not in my book.  As soon as he attempted forced entry she was justified in shooting.  Interesting that in the usual legal analysis associated with these cases, a former prosecutor indicated today that her two warning shots were probably illegal.  Had she killed him with one of those shots, she might have faced big trouble. 


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Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2011, 04:54:01 PM »
Not in my book.  As soon as he attempted forced entry she was justified in shooting.  Interesting that in the usual legal analysis associated with these cases, a former prosecutor indicated today that her two warning shots were probably illegal.  Had she killed him with one of those shots, she might have faced big trouble. 




I can pretty well agree with that, and it seems that the warning shot speculation could have some reasonable thought behind it.  Accidents happen.
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Offline glenn kangiser

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2011, 05:06:01 PM »
To clarify, had his own people risen up and killed him, without assistance from NATO or other outside influence, his killing would have been acceptable to you?   A simple yes or no, please.

Sorry but I will not let you force me into implying that I agree or disagree with the assassination in any form.

I would not set myself up to judge him as I only have third party knowledge so I would have to say that if they had been affected first hand and it was their choice it would be acceptable to them.  I would not judge their action as it is not my place.

I will say that the NATO action is not acceptable.  The destruction of the civilian facilities by the unrelenting bombing that continues at this moment even though they claim to have killed him is also unjustified.  Why continue the bombing when it is MISSION ACCOMPLISHED?

Perhaps they are upset that they may only have gotten one of his 7 doubles and they are now after the real Gaddafi?



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Offline Native_NM

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2011, 03:21:50 PM »
Sorry but I will not let you force me into implying that I agree or disagree with the assassination in any form.

I would not set myself up to judge him as I only have third party knowledge so I would have to say that if they had been affected first hand and it was their choice it would be acceptable to them.  I would not judge their action as it is not my place.

I will say that the NATO action is not acceptable.  The destruction of the civilian facilities by the unrelenting bombing that continues at this moment even though they claim to have killed him is also unjustified.  Why continue the bombing when it is MISSION ACCOMPLISHED?

Perhaps they are upset that they may only have gotten one of his 7 doubles and they are now after the real Gaddafi?


All any of us have is third-party knowledge right now....we don't know what happened there, and have not lived under his rule for 40 years. 

Anyone who does not see some inconsistency with the Gadhafi thread and the "Little old lady kills thug" thread is not being honest.  Two lives were lost.  Both at the hand of their victims. 

I think we've beat this horse enough...ciao.
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Offline MountainDon

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2011, 03:42:56 PM »
[deadhorse]                 ;D
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Offline Windpower

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2011, 02:39:44 AM »
"Anyone who does not see some inconsistency with the Gadhafi thread and the "Little old lady kills thug" thread is not being honest."



Gadhafi, a ligitimate leader of Libya for 40 years, flees in a convoy with a white flag flying. The convoy is attacked with a missile fired by a NATO plane. He flees and eventually surrenders, he is then executed by 'rebels'

A woman in iminent threat to her life calls 911, then, as a last resort fires on the man threatening her.


Got it, exactly the same thing <sarcasm>


    
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Offline Native_NM

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #41 on: October 25, 2011, 03:56:57 AM »
I quit reading at "legitimate leader".....
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Offline Windpower

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #42 on: October 25, 2011, 04:58:35 AM »
I quit reading at "legitimate leader".....


Please feel free to read or not
Read anything posted but
If you don't read the post how
Can you under stand or
Know what the writer is trying to say

But these folks seemed to think he was 'legitimate' enough to speak with


Tony Blair



Condoleza Rice





George Bush

Bush Speaks With Libya's Gaddafi in Historic Phone Call



President Bush called Libya's Moammar Gaddafi yesterday -- apparently the first time any president has spoken to the African leader -- to voice his satisfaction that Libya had settled a long-standing dispute over terrorist attacks, including the bombing of a Pan Am jet over Scotland, the White House said.

In their conversation, Bush and Gaddafi "discussed that this agreement should help to bring a painful chapter in the history between our two countries closer to closure," White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said in a statement.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/17/AR2008111702975.html


« Last Edit: October 25, 2011, 05:17:50 AM by Windpower »
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Offline Native_NM

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #43 on: October 25, 2011, 06:12:00 AM »

How about me and my ex-military buddies take over your state in a coup.  We'll kill anyone who dissents.  My secret squad of goons will drag your family from their homes at night, executing them, and leave their bodies as a warning.  I'll sponsor terror throughout the region.  I'll shoot planes from the sky in Michigan, support murder in Minnesota, bomb a factory or two in Illinois, and claim ownership of the Great Lakes.  I'll funnel your natural resources into my Swiss account.  There will be elections, but I'm the only one on the ballot, and if you don't vote for me, I might just have you killed also. 

I'll do a few nice things.  I'll give you a place to stay and keep the power on.  You can go to school, but you only get to study what I tell you to.  I'll control the school system.  Bread and Circuses worked for Caesar, so it should work for me.  As time goes by and I've aged a few years and amassed a few billion in various investments and Swiss accounts, I might soften up.  I'll still have to kill a few thousand people a year to keep the masses in line, but then again, any legitimate leader does what he has to.... d* d* d* d* d* ??? ??? ??? ???

   
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Offline MountainDon

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #44 on: October 25, 2011, 06:25:36 AM »
But if he's there, in power, long enough doesn't he become legitimate?

[tongue deeply in cheek]



and if that needs explaining http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/tongue-in-cheek.html
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Offline Windpower

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #45 on: October 25, 2011, 06:33:17 AM »


Furthermore, may I suggest that we try to
Understand each other's position. I
Can see a very distinct difference between Gadhafi's
Killing and the woman protecting herself.

You do not seem to agree
Or are you being purposely
Unresponsive to the original post.


 

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Offline Squirl

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #46 on: October 25, 2011, 07:36:56 AM »
How about me and my ex-military buddies take over your state in a coup.  We'll kill anyone who dissents.  My secret squad of goons will drag your family from their homes at night, executing them, and leave their bodies as a warning.  I'll sponsor terror throughout the region.  I'll shoot planes from the sky in Michigan, support murder in Minnesota, bomb a factory or two in Illinois, and claim ownership of the Great Lakes.  I'll funnel your natural resources into my Swiss account.  There will be elections, but I'm the only one on the ballot, and if you don't vote for me, I might just have you killed also. 

Somebody just got added to a list.

Offline Native_NM

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #47 on: October 25, 2011, 07:39:21 AM »
Somebody just got added to a list.

I've been on it for a long time...
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Offline Native_NM

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #48 on: October 25, 2011, 08:06:59 AM »

Furthermore, may I suggest that we try to
Understand each other's position. I
Can see a very distinct difference between Gadhafi's
Killing and the woman protecting herself.

You do not seem to agree
Or are you being purposely
Unresponsive to the original post.


Is the intent of the original post to assert that Gadhafi was killed by bankers disguised as rebels in retaliation for attempting to sell oil in a currency other than dollars and for building a water project without IMF funding?  I wasn't sure what to discern from the string of articles you posted.  Perhaps the intent was to portray NATO as the bad guys and Libya as a virtual utopia and paradise.  Why don't you tell us in your own words what you think.  Cut-and-paste links from sites with a known political tilt don't give us much insight into what you think.  The Examiner is not even a news source.  Its a freelance sight run by independent "Examiners" who get paid pennies each time somebody like you pastes a link to their stories.

In my opinion, the difference between the two deaths is about 40 years.  One was killed as he broke into a home, the other about 40 years after he broke into an entire country

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Offline Windpower

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Re: Gadhafi Assassinated
« Reply #49 on: October 25, 2011, 09:58:04 AM »
Is Bloomberg any better, if you don't like the Examiner

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-21/libyan-rebel-council-sets-up-oil-company-to-replace-qaddafi-s.html


The point is that From Tony Blair to Condoleza Rice to George Bush and Prince Charles


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2053079/Gaddafi-dead-Prince-Charless-fawning-letter-despot-discovered-Libya-palace.html


(I assume the Daily Mail from London is an acceptable source)

-- Gadhafi was recognized as the head of Libya, there was no problem until he started to organize the African Gold Dinar and talk about selling oil for the Dinar.

All of a sudden the same man is a demon and deserves to to be shot down like a dog in the street.

The rebels had zero chance of pulling off a coup without NATO airstrikes that killed thousands of civilians.
 
Now the people of Libya are the big losers. They are in debt to the new 'central bank' They will have to spend billions to rebuild their infrastructure

"Mission Accomplished" another debt free country is now enslaved to the IMF/BIS(what ever you want to call them)

That is the intended end result.

Oh here is another result

The Rebels will force Sharia Law on the new 'free' Libya


"Now the rebels impose Sharia law as Islamic rules become 'basic source' of Libyan legislation"


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2052398/Gaddafi-dead-Mahmoud-Jibril-says-legislation-based-Islamic-Sharia-law.html#ixzz1bovo7m00



Nice, now we have another fanatical Islamic republic in the ME

Often, our ignorance is not as great as our reluctance to act on what we know.

 

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