Lost in the snow

MountainDon · January 07, 2008, 05:25:57 PM

Split from fiber cement board topic http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=3738.new#new

Yep, I've been watching the stories on 2 different groups lost in north NM / south CO (8 people). Right up there close by to Frank's property. Looks like they picked a poor time to be out there. Hope it turns out okay for them. They may have been able to shelter at any of the remote cabins scattered in the area. I wouldn't mind my cabin saving somebody's life... just how do you balance the much more likely chances of someone burglarizing your place vs. the much less likely chance of somebody in a survival situation needing access. I was in the latter position once and was thankful for the unlatched single hung sash I found. No damage done to property and if it didn't save my life it definitely made it easier to get through the blizzard. My own cabin is going to be equipped with solid shutters to help in the first and more likely case.

MountainDon · January 08, 2008, 10:57:20 AM

6 snowmobilers found. They'd taken shelter in a cabin and sat out the worst of the storm.

But the other 2 and 2 more still not located.

January 08, 2008, 12:20:22 PM

Even an outbuilding with some straw would mean a better chance for survival than nothing at all.

MountainDon · January 08, 2008, 02:27:12 PM

I have more time now....

The party of six located a cafeteria building for the old summer railway. There were some boullion cubes left. That was not a suitable bldg so they all moved to a cabin of some kind. It would appear there was not heat of any kind available so they stacked mattresses against the drafty walls. Resourceful filks.

Two of the other missing people, snowboarders, left one of their cell phones behind in their car trunk. That phone has a GPS in it which could have helped searchers looking for them.

The other two missing got caught in the snow storm near Santa Fe. Expectations are high for their survival as vis cell phone it was learned they made a snow shelter. But that's all. They're apparently experienced winter sports people and in good physical shape.

Homegrown Tomatoes · January 08, 2008, 02:51:15 PM

After that guy and his family got lost last year in Oregon (I can see their faces, but can't think of their names right off hand) I bought my husband a GPS for his birthday... I could so see something like that happening to him because having been raised in a big city where he used mass transit all the time, he has a terrible sense of direction. He also doesn't have the best survival skills in the woods and would have no clue what, if anything, he could eat to survive. Every fall, I load up his car with blankets, candles, and some snacks/water just in case he gets out and gets stuck in a snowstorm...If I just told him to do it, he'd probably never do it. Never hurts to be on the safe side.

January 08, 2008, 04:45:27 PM

Study of maps and intimate knowledge of the surrounding area can also help greatly...as well as knowing where the sun comes from and goes to.

MountainDon · January 08, 2008, 07:37:22 PM

It's suspected the snowboarders went off and got disorientated. PC for lost.

Willy · January 08, 2008, 07:45:12 PM

Quote from: MountainDon on January 08, 2008, 07:37:22 PM
It's suspected the snowboarders went off and got disorientated. PC for lost.

I heard on Fox News today they found the 2 guys today and they are allright. Guess they lucked out this time for sure! Mark

MountainDon · January 08, 2008, 07:58:27 PM

Ah! That's the 2 (M, F) that were lost near Santa Fe.

The couple did have a shovel with them, which they told searchers they used to build a much-needed snow cave.

There's still the 2 (M, M) near Wolf Creek.

Mike Avila, grandfather of George, told Action 7 News that if the boys got disoriented they could likely walk straight into a severe avalanche area, which would take air support to locate.

"I doubt they had anything significant on them for survival. I know they had a lighter on them, hopefully they could do something with that," said Mark George, Michael's father.

January 08, 2008, 11:19:24 PM

I hadn't heard about the ones near Wolf Creek... I don't get out much, I guess. I have very fond memories of that place... it's where I first learned to snow ski on my 5th birthday. If they have a lighter, and they can stay hydrated by eating snow, hopefully they'll survive.

MountainDon · January 09, 2008, 12:13:11 AM

Re the couple found near Santa Fe... the guy is an ER doctor. One of the calls he made on his cell was to let work know he wouldn't make it into work that day.

jwv · January 09, 2008, 09:32:21 PM

Our cabin was in Creede, near Wolf Creek and I still keep an eye on the weather there. WC has had 66 inches of snow in this storm and that is rugged, remote territory.

My thoughts go out...

Judy

MountainDon · January 09, 2008, 10:47:34 PM

Creede was a cool old town some 20 years ago. Still has the historic old part. It's an inmteresting drive up the main street.

Homegrown Tomatoes · January 11, 2008, 12:06:23 AM

My uncle used to work at a ranch near Creede. I remember taking trips through there when I was a kid. Neat place with a lot of memories. I decided to go wading in the water there and my feet turned blue (I think it was probably February or March??) I remember climbing up and looking in some old mines with my dad near there.

Did they ever find these kids? As I said, I don't get out much and haven't read anything about it except what Don's posted here.

January 11, 2008, 12:27:47 AM

Quote from: Homegrown Tomatoes on January 08, 2008, 11:19:24 PM
I hadn't heard about the ones near Wolf Creek... I don't get out much, I guess. I have very fond memories of that place... it's where I first learned to snow ski on my 5th birthday. If they have a lighter, and they can stay hydrated by eating snow, hopefully they'll survive.

A reminder --if it's yellow, don't eat it.

MountainDon · January 11, 2008, 01:49:00 AM

No word yet. Today's news made no mention. Not a good sign.

benevolance · January 11, 2008, 02:03:15 AM

Yeah and it used to be cool when we were kids to have a Swiss Army Knife and a Compass....you can start a fire with a good swiss army knife in the wilderness...Melt some snow for hydration... stay warm.. signal a plane...

Not everyone can find a cabin...But a fire means survival

Glenn's point about having a clue as to where you are going the land the terrian the roads old rail lines...where you can find shelter or water...etc is something everyone should learn...

I think everyone should be made to take a course on survival when they get their driving license and it should be mandatory to carry a rudimentary survival kit in the trunk of your car.

It is amazing how someone with the time and money to buy a $10,000 snow mobile and all the fancy suit to go with it cannot take the time to study a map or pack a emergency kit... Hell new snowmobiles all come with a glove box under the back of the seat and a storage box beside the engine no excuse not to take some sort of emergency food supply even if it is chicken noodle soup in a box or some bullion cubes

Does not seem like much but spend 2 days in the wilderness and you would just about cut someones throat for some bullion cubes in hot water.

MountainDon · January 13, 2008, 10:27:47 PM

The two young males are still missing. The story of the two rescued snow boarders is HERE.

Note that the two rescued did eat snow after their water ran out. They tried melting snow in their hydration pack under clothes, but they didn't have enough body heat to melt it. Also note they did not start a fire. I can't find any information regarding this but I believe they didn't, not because of a lack of ignition devices, but because finding tinder and wood to burn when there are several feet of wind packed snow on the ground can be a problem.

benevolance · January 13, 2008, 11:01:17 PM

Don

Well if I was out in the woods and I knew I was going to have to stay out there and stay alive until help came...I would not wait until there were several feet of snow on the ground...Once if got cold and started to snow like crazy I would be going insane to get a fire going and to try to break off small spruce fur bows to erect some shelter

MountainDon · January 13, 2008, 11:14:07 PM

They were out in the woods snow boarding on top of several feet of snow that was already there. If there wasn't already snow there, they would not have been there in the first place.

I'm just saying that it's harder to start and maintain a fire in snow conditions than most folks think. It is frequently better under such conditions to seek or make shelter. A snow cave like they did is about as good as it gets under the conditions they had. Think ~~eskimo~~ Inuit igloo in the frozen wastes of northern Canada. A snow shelter, entrance shielded from the wind works well. Add a candle and it's almost a Hilton.

Folks who ski, snow board, snowmobile, snow show, etc. usually have several feet of snow to contend with in the western mountains. As for fires, they also have a bad habit of melting holes in deep snow making it harder to keep a fire going. In cases like that you need to be able to cut green trees to make a bed of logs to build the fire on. Bet they didn't have an axe or any type of saw along.

January 13, 2008, 11:30:30 PM

However, for starting a fire here's a link to the item you need. It's the next best thing to a gas blowtorch and a lot easier to pack along.

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=3737.msg44827#msg44827

benevolance · January 14, 2008, 03:30:10 AM

It depends on where they were when the snow came...If they ski down the slope they have to find trees somewhere...

And yes in a bunch of snow an igloo like shelter would be best...Their thermal body heat would warm up the shelter making snow melting easier and survival pretty likely

MountainDon · January 27, 2008, 12:36:07 PM

The 2 male snowboarders, lost in the Wolf Creek area have not been found. It may be spring before their bodies are found.

Today's paper had a couple of interesting articles. The area near Santa Fe, where the male-female couple were rescued from id known to the search & rescue people as New Mexico's Burmuda Triangle. They have one to two missions a year in that area. It's a steep sided valley.

Also of note is that in recent years the number of missions has fallen by about one half, even though there are more people involved in outdoor recreation. This is credited to increased use of GPS and cell phones. Frequently people call in with their GPS co-ordinates asking for help.

In the case of the rescued male-female couple, Verizon reported the position to search and rescue as being 8.8 miles NE of a particular call tower. Search and rescue spoke with them on the cell phone and by the couple's description thought they were in a different location. So S&R concentrated their efforts there. On the third day a helicopter located the couple 5.54 miles NE of the Verizon cell tower. S&R states that they will now give greater credence to the cell phone company information. [Doh!!]

And lastly S&R acknowledges that 50% of the information received regarding searches is incorrect.

glenn kangiser · January 27, 2008, 08:14:10 PM

As I have been saying -- a cell phone is a tracking device. Maybe not all bad.