Some people are getting the idea

[peternap]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D90Q70M80&show_article=1

Not everyone has their head in the sand!

[Homegrown Tomatoes]

DH and I looked at some land last Saturday and we saw a family unhitching their mules after having used them to plow their fields, too.  First time I've seen that in a longggg time.

[glenn kangiser]

$12 a gallon?

http://www.businessandmedia.org/articles/2008/20080521145247.aspx

[peternap]

They were discussing that on CNBC the other day Glenn. That's the interview that Muldoon was talking about. They are also pushing it again today and to be honest, oil is at 134.49 right now and it is a little shocking.

I can play that game to a certain extent but I'm sure this summer will mean a major change in lifestyle for many people.

I can make money in the stock market...hell any fool can. It's so juggled by the hedgefunds you just follow the money. Question, is the money worth anything...Well, yes and no.  Right now you can buy things with it but I expect cash to go the way of Confederate money. No backing....no good.

Gold, it's always good but I ain't paying 969.99 plus for it. That means buying 14 and 18 K gold from individuals and that takes time.

The bottom line RIGHT NOW is that hindsight is 20/20 and foresight is just a guess. If gas continues to go up, it will be one of the big economy breakers (it's hurting now).

Let's look at what's going on right now, just before the holiday.

Skippy and Muffin both work to barely pay for their 450,000.00 house, BMW, Tahoe, little bumbleass's private school and their timeshare.

No savings of course. The 450 grand house is now worth 350 grand and the interest rate on their adjustable rate loan just went up as did the tax assessment.

The time share never has been worth anything but "One must have a place at the lake".

Gas is around 4 bucks now and neither vehicle gets over 20 mpg. ...

Food is going up and the quarter acre lot they have isn't large enough for a garden plus the homeowners association won't allow one.

Because of the unstable economy and fuel costs, Skippy's company is cutting back. Skippy just got a pink slip. It takes two rather good salaries to break even.

No one will buy the beamer or the Tahoe because of gas.

Skippy has no skills other than management and the market is flooded with Skippy clones.

Now, Johns muddle through economics, is a sound philosophy and in fact, is how this country has operated since the 70's. I think we're out of wiggle room though.

What is Skippy and Muffin to do? That's a question because I don't have a clue but it is happening al over the country....RIGHT NOW!


BTW....I used Skippy as an example because there are 800 Skippy's for every Nap or Glenn or Redover.

[desdawg]

As the saying goes, these are the times that try men's souls. Even if you are trying to think your way through it and don't have all the toys, lifestyle and obligations Skippy and Muffin do it is hard to know which way to turn most of the time. It seems that none of the old rules apply. I have been doing everything I can to convert illiquid assets to cash. I have so many places I could put the cash even that is hard to decide. Keep some debt and try to continue to muddle through, pay off the debt and be without anything to fall back on? Construction equipment and real estate are not big movers now and that is what I have most of. And the future for that stuff is very dim. The government is no help what with the uncertainty about taxes and what that will be like coming up. Buy something like the duplex that I have been talking about for the immediate positive cash flow? Everything we consume is transported by diesel guzzlers so the future looks really shakey no matter how you slice it.    I have to wonder how long people will endure all of this before something really big and bad happens. Corner any animal and it will attack, even the human animal. People won't just sit still and be pushed around forever and yet that seems to be what is happening. We seem to have no power to change anything right now.
I checked the mileage on my new Chevy truck and it is clocking in at 21mpg so that helps a little.

[ScottA]

Good one peter. Skippy is going to lose his fancy house and maybe get one of his cars re-poed. Nothing the poor working stiffs haven't been dealing with for decades. Welcome to the poor working class Skippy and Muffin. Not to worry though someone got alot richer at your expense so all's well with the economy, just ask BushCo Inc.

[peternap]

Des and Scott, I think nearly everyone here is capable of dealing with a new economy. After all, this isn't an end of the world board...it's a build your own house board.

Des, I don't think Skippy is capable of fighting back. I do think Congress will redo the bankruptcy laws again this year to make it easier to file again. That's how Skippy will fight back but as Scott pointed out, he'll be down in the trenches with us that had to deal with it for years.

The next class of people who are able to deal with it are criminals. I expect a big spike in crime this summer. Included in violent crime and thefts, I expect more food bootleggers and black marketeers. Remember how the OLD MONEY in this country was made.

This weekend, I need to go to the farm. Lots of work to do and I need to spend a full day on the house. I'll make the trip on diesel/waste oil. I couldn't sleep last night so I filtered some.

Next week I'm going to build a solar hot water heater and I have some spare solar panels I;ll set up at the burb house. I want to see if I can get the electric bill under 50.00.
Out of the many things that may happen, I'm certain fuel and electricity won't drop much if the even drop at all. I already have a garden and a deal on beef.

[ScottA]

I grew up poor so none of this is new to me. Even with all the problems we are still way better off than we where back then. Things will need to get alot worse before it gets to that level again. But thinking back it wasn't really all that terrible back then. We found ways to adapt and will again if need be.

[muldoon]

I agree with scott on this.  I also grew up poor, learned how to do whats necessary to adapt and learned how important having family that helps each other is.  I'm not on the poverty rung right now, but I have nowhere near as far to fall as Skippy and Muffin from above.  The  biggest change for Skip and Muff is mentaly, the entitlement, the social class misunderstandings.

You asked what will they do?  Go look at what their doing right now, living in cars.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xinm6UXw1c
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/05/19/homeless.mom/
http://newsblaze.com/story/20060629215751nnnn.nb/topstory.html
http://news.aol.com/business/story/_a/people-living-in-cars-get-place-to-park/20080520162309990001

I dont think the bankrupcy laws need to change, I think the FICO system is about to get flushed down the drain.  I keep hearing about people with 750-850 scores not getting a loan and thousands and thousands of people walking away every week.  It wont be long before borrowing money will be just completely unavailable to most people for a few years.  Think of credit as a pendulumn, it swung way too far one way -- and now its swinging back the other.  I can live just fine without credit - in fact I do now quite happily. 

Another point I saw in this thread - yes - cornered animals do fight back .. but really, consider how far america has to fall before were at that point.  We take soo much for granted in this country.  No one is going to fight in this country when we still live soo far above the rest of the world -- even if were in a recession or depression this year, its just not that bad.  Go look at how bad the situation was in argentina prior to their collapse and breaking point.  those are people who have nothing left to lose.  were still quite far from there, and this country still has plenty of resources.  the video is 12 parts long, worth the watch in my opinion.  As concerned about the US as I am, I just cannot see this happening here.   
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=D25049A91602BCE8 

[peternap]

Here's an interesting story:

   
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Food pantries seeing more working-class families in need

Posted: May 22, 2008 05:55 PM

Updated: May 22, 2008 06:26 PM

From NBC12 News

Budget-busting gas and food prices have a new group of people seeking help.

In Petersburg, agencies are seeing more working-class families looking for assistance to make ends meet.

NBC12 spoke with a retired teacher and a painter. Both say they have never needed help putting food on the table until now.

"This is the first time I had to come in here and it's because everything is so high," said retired teacher Dorothy Jackson. "Even the price of food is expensive."

Luther Yerger is employed as a painter and says he came to the food pantry because the money he earns isn't going as far as it used to.

Volunteers at St. Joseph's Paris Outreach in Petersburg say they're seeing an increasing number of working-class families in need of help.

"We probably have seven, eight, nine new people everytime we open," said Sister Dorothy Pyle.

Demand is so high that the agency is having a hard time keeping food on the shelves. They've even had to turn some people away.

"It's very disappointing to the people and disappointing to us," Pyle said.

A representative from the Dept. of Social Services in Petersburg says it has also seen more working-class families coming in for help.

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