News Article-not building related...soc/econ issue

[Daddymem]

http://tinyurl.com/77g87

An article in the Boston Globe about the rising costs of a State University (UMASS Amherst).  There is a part in there where they talk about noone in the classroom (save one guy) had family incomes below $200,000!  That is becoming too typical; both bread winners have to be professionals.  I know I couldn't afford to go there today, nor could I send my kids.  In fact, I started my college career commuting 20 mins and working full time before I realized there were options.  I found it was cheaper to go to the University of Alaska, Fairbanks and live on campus than it was to continue living with my parents and commuting.  I think this article points out a trend throughout the US, but with the Northeast in the financial state it is, it makes a bigger impact.  If we didn't absolutely love it here, I'm not sure what would keep us around.

[Amanda_931]

Here's an article about the amount of debt that people coming out of college 10-12 years ago are carrying.  And the way it is impacting their lives.

Between that and the price of entry-level housing, aaaagh!

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Moneyinyour20s/P136091.asp?GT1=7533

[glenn kangiser]

I skipped the college and the debt-- I figured if a brain had to cost that much, I didn't need one.  I also just liked to read and do stuff.  I would have liked to be an engineer - but didn't want to spend the time in school -- I was already working on resisting authority --

[benevolance]

Took me 7 years to pay off my student loans...I will never go into debt again! I will eat grass and sleep in the ditch first

The real problem is that Our economies are set up largely around debt...The finance companies and the big banks need Drone clones or whatever we want to call ourselves to sign up early at the age of 18 and build upon and maintain our debtloads for the bul of our lives...

We get stuck in this cycle and we buy 6 new cars during our lifetimes servicing that part of the economy...We borrow so much money the banks and finance companies can record record profits...We borrow for a house and that sector of the economy feeds off us....

If tomorrow people started to drive $300 piece of junk cars...To live in older houses, rent, commute...Share living quarters whatever they could to avoid mortgages...

If people by and large stopped borrowing at this record rate and putting themselves into debt for life...Well then there would be a catastrophic economic crash...Something that would make the depression look like a bad couple of months....

The government, companies, banks, universities do not want us to be free of this debt.... We call people burdened in other parts of the world and talk of freedom...We say that Communism is bad and the only free system is Deomocracy and Capitalism...

Well Capitalism is just another type of Slavery...the rich enslaving the poor.

Universities could be free or cost 1/10 what they cost now...High tech companies, hospitals, and the government could sponsor education facilities to produce future generations...But this would end the cycle of debt...

And that would never do.

Socialism is part of all of us....People hear the word socialism and they think Commie...Because of fanatical right wing lunatics (see W Bush)

Fact is no one system works...The best governments in the history of this planet have been delicate balances of several types of government...We saw it with the Roman Empire and we see it now with countries that have social programs mixed in evenly with capitalism....See Australia and Canada.

For Example...In Australia if you want to be a Doctor it is free! pass the requirement tests and you are in...Of course you have to work as a Doctor for 7 years at a preferred pay rate to repay the cost of your education.

same thing if you want to be a teacher or a engineer....Companies and institutions that need qualified workers invest money into the schools for tuitions just like we would invest in the stock market...Or a farmer would buy seeds and plant them...

And the end result is a affordable reliable qualified workforce...It is good for business, it is good for society and it is great for anyone wanting an education and not wanting a life of debt to get it.

This is just one example of how a balance of Socialism with Capitalism works.

It is fuuny but the Military has the exact same socalist system in place to recruit people to join up...offering free University, job training etc...

I kind of laugh to think that the US military is run by and staffed through socialism.... Talk about hippocracy!

Okay I will stop, I think I hear black helicopters...This true easy to research information...It is dangerous stuff

[jonsey/downunder]

Scary stuff.
This chart indicates a trend, if I saw this on a stock chart it would suggest a pretty good chance of making a profit, a good buy.

Seeing it as a worldwide warming trend is a whole different ball game. :-/
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0125-08.htm
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2005/

[Shelley]

You know, the fees at UMass and other state schools are a state issue, not a federal one.  Get active and get the fees reduced.

Every year almost, Money and other like mags run articles on small, good liberal arts colleges where someone can get a good education without incurring the debt of a small country.

Another article that's often written is grants/scholarships that go begging for want of applicants.

Then there are several schools like Berea College (KY) where I believe the fees are still zero. Gotta work at the school, however.  Bummer.

In NM, hold a B average, be a resident and go for free.  Lottery money.

Gotta have a degree from somewhere specific?  Go to a community college for 2 years and get the basics out of the way.  Then, transfer.

And like Australia we have programs that forgive the student debt of Drs and Teachers.  Believe the commitment is < 7 years.  All you have to do is teach or practice somewhere they send you...Indian Reservation for instance.  I meet them all the time.  They have a tendency to stay here after they leave the rez.  This is "the land of enchantment" you know.

And, I believe there are still ROTC programs that allow you to go to the college of your choice, drink beer.  Military pays the fees in return for some # of years when you graduate....and a little rotcy on the weekends.

Trouble is all this requires some research on someone's part.  No one's going to spoon feed it to you.

[trish2(Guest)]

As a former instructor at a local community college, let me give you another perspective.  In our California county we have 3 community colleges.  Aprroximately 40-50 percent of the students who start a class will not finish it.   Fees are fairly low,  around $30 a credit hour.   For an average semester, tutition including health fee, is around $500-ish.   Books of course are extra and in my mind too expensive, but that another topic for another thread.  Even if you figure $100 in books per class, the entire semester is around $1,000-1200.   Not an insignificant amount of money, but for a college education, a bargain.  

The question that has baffled most  college teachers and administrative staff is why so many students don't finish the classes they start after they have invested the money in books and tutition.  Our conclusion is that because the classes are relatively inexpensive, when compared to other colleges,  the classes are not highly valued and thus disposable.   In a bizarre way perhaps the way to ensure that students are committed is to make the fees higher.  Maybe that would cut down on the 40-50% drop out rate.

[Amanda_931]

Yes, Trish, there could be that.

Certainly back in the days of talking cures, psychiatrists used to say that that worked--had to use high prices to convince patients to stick to the often painful process of therapy.  (nowadays people are more likely just to be given valium by their family physician).

But I sometimes wonder if drug prices are sometimes fixed because of that--$218 a month for a couple of grams--total--of asthma medicine.

But it is true that all of the ways to get an education have costs.  Best know what you're getting into before you jump--and that's very hard, sometimes--whether it is better to dedicate the first x-hundred dollars of each paycheck to paying back the loan, or find oneself in a job that one is totally unsuited for.

The army, for instance, does not take kindly to people it's sending to medical school coming to the conclusion that they would rather turn the schooling they've already had into a loan under the regular loan program, for instance.  That they would face military prison instead of patching up soldiers enough to go back into battle.  And this was during peacetime. (and I was not involved in that situation at all)

On the other hand I do know another woman who is happy as a clam with her MD program.  She'll be able to build her house on her land two miles from the clinic where she'll be working, somewhere in north Georgia, I think.

But her goal had always been to be a family physician.  Had she been driven to be an oncologist, there might not have been a place for her out in deep county.

[harry51]

Trish, I wonder if the dropout rate could relate to lots of people going to college for all the wrong reasons?

[Daddymem]

Looks like 37% college dropout is the average in US (according to that study).  If college trends follow high school trends, the Northeast and Midwest would have the lowest percentages other areas higher.  Depending where you are Trish, your school may have been right in line.  Here is an article explaining choices that can lead to dropping out.  Intersting stuff.  But who knows for sure, I still can fathom that having a massive debt coming out of school is a good thing.  I'm sure there are articles out there contradicting too.  I can only judge based on my experience coming from a lower-middle income family, striving for an engineering degree, and working throughout college.

[Daddymem]

Heh, timely subject!  The Boston Globe shows 24.7% graduation rate (US Average) for community colleges.  You may or may not make it to the article with that link...it wants you to join.

[Leo]

While I like to be positive about things its definetely getting harder.My wife just got tenure at a state university last year .57,000 dosent go as far as it once did.the consulting on the side isa big help.that isnt that much money for the investment in time and energy.its a calling.they do pay tuiton for our two children who are students there now with one more in a couple of years, but not dorm ,meal plan,books etc. Our house here is a large 1886 victorian and last months heat bill was 650$ compared to 350$ ayear ago.were ok but many are not and I wonder just how low the thermosthats are set in fixed income and student houses here .one acre here is 30,000 or you can go the subdivison way with youre neighbor 10 feet away but that would require serious self medication.down in the boonies where were buiding i believe the wage scale is considerbly less but seems the quality of life is better,seems people there also have more down time. the people employed in auto manufacturing locally are nervous as its not just the big three but all these smaller companys supplying them with components and services. we are bent over a oil barrel waiting for the next bad joke and gas guzzlers are still the rage,and the middle east leaves much to be desired, sometimes I just dont get it .Last week when I was down working on the cabin I saw three dead skunks in the road.So? well Im told when you see dead skunks spring is close Its January?so far this month weve had one normal day time high with every other day much warmer and at 1 am the other night it was 52 day time high should be 31 for now.global warming ?I dont know but somethings askew.94 was the most tornadoes ,95 the most hurricanes ,96?? the graph posted by jonesey is enlightening(trying to be positive). pandemics?dont even wanna go there. On the up side the roof decking is almost complete and rough plumbing starts soon and by this summer it will  be close enough for long stays(I like plywood interiors in the summer) by the tribe. time to  have fun and enjoy those that are close go fishing and hang out