Monday Morning - June 11th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Ok, I finally am finished with all of my barge rafter work and now I only have 2 items to mess with before I actually start to lay down my 5/8's roof sheets. Therefore, I have a few questions.

My 20x30 1-1/2 Story Cottage Countryplans uses 22-1/2" long vent blocks that include ganged cut notches with screening. It shows the notches to be 1-1/2" deep.

I've also read here where I can just use blocks between each rafter and each block should be 1" to 1-1/2" below the rafter top for venting. Also, I can put them in perpendicular to the rafters or plumb with the wall. That's a lot of choices, which one is the simplest, which one is the best? I like the idea of those blocks being plumb with the wall.

After I get my blocking in, then it's time for me to put on my fascia board. I'm getting mixed up in knowing the difference between sub-fascia and just fascia. Is sub-fascia the main board that will go against the plumb-cut rafter tails and just fascia is a board that goes over the sub?

I also have read that I have to drop down my fascia board about 1-1/2" below the rafter end so that the roof sheets will go over it. I'm pretty sure I understand that concept. I'll just put a straight edge on top of the rafters and position the fascia board to fall right below it.

Anyway, I'm ready to put in my blocking between the rafters now and instead of gang cutting those notches I think the best thing is to nail them in plumb with the wall, on top of the very top plate, flush to the outside, and 1" to 1-1/2" below the rafter top/under the sheets. Then, I'll install baffles between each rafter bay that will go all the way up to the top and the air will come out at the ridge vent. Am I correct in my thinking?

its all preferance. i like them flat with the wall and an angle cut on top to match the roof. but i admit it is a lot easier to put them in with the pitch of the rafters and not do that angle cut. you can do that v notch or drill two holes in them. seen it both ways.

obviously you are leaving the rafters exposed and not boxing in the soffits correct? cause you dont need to do that if you box them.

your making me feel real lazy

Hey, thanks for the response CjAl,

I guess I'm thinking wrong, I AM planning to box in the soffit area because I don't want the rafters exposed but I thought that I still need the vent area above the blocking.

you dont need screening in them because you will put it on the soffet vents when you box them in. although it wouldnt hurt, kinda like a second line of defense for bugs. i know around here we have so many roaches in the trees you need ever bit of help you can get.

since your boxing them in i would just block them paralell to the rafters, leave an inch or inch and a half or whatever you need to slide those roof vent forms in there and then spray foam the gaps.

Quote from: ajbremer on June 11, 2012, 09:02:52 AM
Monday Morning - June 11th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Ok, I finally am finished with all of my barge rafter work and now I only have 2 items to mess with before I actually start to lay down my 5/8's roof sheets. Therefore, I have a few questions.

My 20x30 1-1/2 Story Cottage Countryplans uses 22-1/2" long vent blocks that include ganged cut notches with screening. It shows the notches to be 1-1/2" deep.

I've also read here where I can just use blocks between each rafter and each block should be 1" to 1-1/2" below the rafter top for venting. Also, I can put them in perpendicular to the rafters or plumb with the wall. That's a lot of choices, which one is the simplest, which one is the best? I like the idea of those blocks being plumb with the wall.

After I get my blocking in, then it's time for me to put on my fascia board. I'm getting mixed up in knowing the difference between sub-fascia and just fascia. Is sub-fascia the main board that will go against the plumb-cut rafter tails and just fascia is a board that goes over the sub?

I also have read that I have to drop down my fascia board about 1-1/2" below the rafter end so that the roof sheets will go over it. I'm pretty sure I understand that concept. I'll just put a straight edge on top of the rafters and position the fascia board to fall right below it.

Anyway, I'm ready to put in my blocking between the rafters now and instead of gang cutting those notches I think the best thing is to nail them in plumb with the wall, on top of the very top plate, flush to the outside, and 1" to 1-1/2" below the rafter top/under the sheets. Then, I'll install baffles between each rafter bay that will go all the way up to the top and the air will come out at the ridge vent. Am I correct in my thinking?

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AL the reason to cut the notches at the top is that if you drill below that for vent holes the insulation will cover them up as the insulation will be all the way to the outside of your top plate.

Maybe I misunderstood you previously in that you stated that you were not going to do the soffit at this time because of your HOA requiring it to be completed on the exterior in a specified time.

Your sub-fascia board is the board that gets attched to your wall sheeting/top plate which should be parallel(level) to the fascia board on the end of your rafter tails.  That is what you attach your soffit to.  Depending on what material you are going to use ( ) will determine the manner of attachment. Some people use a 1X or2X nailed to the oustide of your rafter tails.  Then come back with another 1X and let it drop below the previous one say 1-1/2".  That covers the edge of your soffit material. 

Just remember that your drip edge should be wide on the bottom of your sheeting to overlap tthe top of  your fascia board  that is nailed on the end of your rafter tails.

If you are going to build your soffit in CjAl is right you do not need the screening as the boxing will keep bugs out and the vent's themself will have screening on the back side or you can add screen to that particular area. In regards to venting and screening you haven't stated the type of vents you plan on having. With your design it would probably be suited with a ridge vent. You need some "cobra" type vent material on the ridge area if using shingle ridge caps or if using rigid plastic protruding ridge vent it should have the screening material already present.  I made my own but I admit I am cheap using screening nailed over the ridge vent area followed by 1/4" rabbit wire or hardware cloth ( for bats) then used my metal ridge cap.

Here is a little DIY I had bookmarked which has some examples of soffit, fasic and the like.

http://www.hometime.com/howto/projects/framing/frame_5.htm

Thank you CjAl and redoverfarm,

My main objective is to get those sheets on as soon as possible and then do anything else that I can after the sheets are on.

I know I have to put that blocking in between the rafters before I put the sheets on because there would be no way to swing a hammer with sheets on. BUT, could I get away with putting the sheets on the roof and then putting the fascia and soffits on after the sheets are down?

they can be toenailed in. thats where a nail gun sure comes on handy though.

if you figure out what material you want to use for facia just overhang the roof sheeting enough to.cover the thickness of that material and then you can finish it later. myself, i like the open soffit look.

Quote from: ajbremer on June 11, 2012, 01:13:51 PM
Thank you CjAl and redoverfarm,

My main objective is to get those sheets on as soon as possible and then do anything else that I can after the sheets are on.

I know I have to put that blocking in between the rafters before I put the sheets on because there would be no way to swing a hammer with sheets on. BUT, could I get away with putting the sheets on the roof and then putting the fascia and soffits on after the sheets are down?

Yes by all means get your sheeting on.  Then when it comes time to do the fascia/soffit just push your fascia board up until it hits the overhanging roof sheeting and nail in place.  Just "think" what you are going to use for the fascia steps and how much you need to allow the roof sheeting to overhang to cover.  Don't go too far though.  If you decide to use coil stock or metal to cover your fascia then it slips in behind the bottom of the drip edge.  I usually go 3/4-1".

This was a shed sketchup I had that shows the blocking between rafters. The plumb and level cut rafter ends with the subfascia nailed flush to the bottom level cut and the top outside corner planing in with the top edge of the rafters. The fascia will nail to the sub and the fly and will hang down enough to cover the soffit thickness plus a pleasing reveal ~1/2-3/4".



Do get clips to usewith the roof ply in between rafters on the joint between sheets .

K, that's a great illustration - totally understandable. Blocking is 1" to 1-1/2" down from top of rafters right?

Yup,
I doodled more on the model for soffit nailers, I'll post that soon.

Al trying to stay one step ahead of you.  A couple things come to mind in your next steps if you have given any thoughts toward your finished roof.  I believe you said that you were going with shingles.  You need to invest in some "ice guard" in the lower 3-6' of the eves.  It is self adhesive and goes on right after the drip edge from the eve edge toward the ridge.  If you think it will be sometime before you actually add the shingles might I suggest "Titanium Synthetic Felt" verses the 15 or 30# felt.  It will extend your interval time before actually putting on your shingles.  I had mine on for 8 months without any water damage to the sheeting.  It is installed using cap nails vs roofing nails and staples as used in felt paper.  Both good products.

http://roofing.owenscorning.com/homeowner/accessories/ice-and-water-barrier/

http://www.interwrap.com/titanium/udl_30_FB.html

What happened to AL. Hope he didn't fall off the ladder.   

Al is fine last we pm'ed, he's tending to family, we should be hearing from him soon.

Quote from: Don_P on June 14, 2012, 06:54:54 PM
Al is fine last we pm'ed, he's tending to family, we should be hearing from him soon.

Got to wondering he usually recaps in the mornings. Hasn't been one in the past two.  Glad he's OK

I'm here!  oh wait, you mean that other Al guy.

Sunday Night - June 17th, 2012 @ 8:02pm Mid-Oklahoma

Hi guys and gals,

I just got back home from driving to Zolfo Springs, Florida for my Dad's memorial, I was away for 6 days total and just got back a few hours ago. It was about a 1,700 mile round trip. I drove through Oklahoma, Arkansas, Tennessee, Mississippi, Georgia, and Florida. The lowest gas price I found was $3.06 a gallon and I think that was in Georgia somewhere. Our 2009 Chevy Equinox did real good.

Here at home, I don't think it ever really rained hard at all since I've been gone. I know it rained one time and I think it was really light. The house is sitt'in there waiting for me to get into it once again and I surely will come starting tomorrow morning, as long as I don't have car lag.

I appreciate everybody coming back here and checking out on me once in a while, thank you very much all of you for your support.

Ok, tonight maybe I'll get back into dreaming about soffits, fascias, eaves, shingles, and stuff like that.

glad you made it back okay. i just got back from atlanta myself and will be out pouring concrete in the morning

I hope you had a great trip CjAl, have a great new week.

I'm glad you had a safe trip Al.
This is a little more doodling on the same model from my lookout drawing above.


The far left 2x4 in this drawing is the subfascia. In this case a 1x6 fascia will cover it. The top corners either plane in with the roof or are ripped at the roof pitch.

The subfascia determines the level cut on the rafter tails. When that is all done, for a level eave soffit, a ledger is attached to the wall level with the sub. Nailers are attached between the sub and the wall ledger and nailed to the rafter tails. Nail with an eye to making it strong, the wind works on overhangs. The level soffit sheathing is nailed to the... nailers, tight to the fascia, a little gap at the wall which is covered by siding and trim.

I prefer to put the return at the wall line so that is how I drew it here (the sheathing is not shown for clarity)
The rake soffit has a wall nailer that is in plane with the fly, I show it along the outboard rafter just under the lookouts. The soffit will nail to the underside of the fly and the wall nailer. You can run blocking along each lookout for more nailing if you want, it will make it stronger.

Monday Morning - June 18th, 2012 Mid-Oklahoma

Ok, back to the regular life of building a house every day, right after this next cup...

Thanks for the picture and trying to help me understand soffit stuff. I have read and re-read Don_P's last post that explains the details in my situation but I don't understand a few things and terminologies.

What's the difference between a soffit and a rake-soffit? I think I might know. Is the rake-soffit the soffit that goes under the barge rafter all the way up to the very top at the gable end and the eave soffit the one that goes along the rafter ends level to the ground?

I edited the Don_P's picture with text so that I could better understand what things are:



I would like to use 2x4s for my subfascia board. This next picture has the rafters at a level angle but you can still see where I'll be making my cuts. Is there anything wrong with me using 2x4 width as the subfascia?



I am also planning on using 2x6's for the blocking in between the rafters, that will leave 1-1/2" for a vent gap.

Al excuse me if I say it doesn't look like the marks are correct or maybe a camera thing. I usually determine the width of the soffit (including sub facia thickness)you are going to make.  Mark that on the bottom (excluding sub facia) of the rafter(tail) from the wall.  Now take you level from that mark and get a plumb line to the top of the rafter on the rafter tail.  That will be your plumb cut.  Then you place your block(nailer) bottom even with the bottom of your rafter tail (horizontal) and to the end of your rafter tail (Plumb cut) and to your ledger board.  I make the plumb cut full width of the rafter rather than to the middle as you have pictured.  Make sense?

At least that is how I do it.  Not exactly what Don_P proposed but it will work just as well and only requires one cut rather than multiple cuts.   It makes the soffit a little lower on the wall but if you want it higher on the wall then just move your plumb cut further up the rafter. 

You have most of the terminology right Al. An eave is the level soffit, a rake is the angled gable soffit. you've misidentified the rake soffit nailer, it is attached full length along the last rafter, on the gable end. The rake soffit nails to the fly rafter and the rake nailer.

I see the rake-soffit nailer now Don and I get it (as far as that's concerned).

So many options on this soffit/fascia thing. What should be the determinator - The width of the board that is used for the subfascia? The width of the board that is used for the soffit?

As far as I can determine (which isn't very far at this point) there are 3 main boards that are visible externally and they make up the eave soffit:

1) SubFascia
2) Fascia
3) Soffit

It seems to me that only one of these can and maybe should be a standard sized 2x and that's the subfascia - I guess it usually is a 2x4 or a 2x6. The fascia and the soffit are usually 1x's? I'm just going to have to search for a really nice diagram that'll make me understand this part of my build.

I'm kind of wondering if it all matters what size things are. As long as there's a subfascia, a board over the subfacia which is the fascia, and a board covering the underside of it all (the soffit). Does it matter how long the plumb and level cut really are as long as these 3 boards are doing their job and covering the whole 'situation'?