What is this "Birther" stuff, anyway?

[StinkerBell]

I am not sure if I am not reading correctly today or I am just missing something.

Myabe its just me. I can't tell if anyone is agreeing with me or not. Or if I am understood about the issue I am addressing.

[glenn kangiser]

We are being non-committal, evasive and politically correct, I think, Stink.

Please feel free to elaborate.

Raindog, You just want to cause trouble...

Invite is still open anyway, pc.

[StinkerBell]

My point is the term african was not used on birth certificates in the 60's. Especially the early 60's. The term Negro or maybe  black would have been used. The word African or African American is truly a thing from the 80's and documents such as birth certifcates didnt change to reflect the culture's verbage change until the last 20 years.

To me its like providing a document from the 70's swearing that its an original but the font and the printer they used is from the 90's.  People tend to forget such things when they try to pass off fake stuff.

[pagan]

Stinkerbell,

So that was why you mentioned the Killian documents which had a superscripted "th" which was not commonly used in the early seventies.

[StinkerBell]

I mention the Killain documents because the fact the fonts where that from a computer and not a typewriter as documents would have been from the 70's.

[glenn kangiser]

A very good point, Stinky.

[pagan]

All good points.

[StinkerBell]

You might here the excuse that Obama's father was Arican.....The question is about RACE not nationality.  Remember this is 1961. They did not list parents nationality, they just wanted Race.

[RainDog]

You might here the excuse that Obama's father was Arican.....The question is about RACE not nationality.  Remember this is 1961. They did not list parents nationality, they just wanted Race.

Anyone that would argue that "African" was the guy's nationality needs a whack upside the head.  

[ScottA]

Since when is "African" a Race? Just to show you how bad this is, my 67 year old mother even thinks he's a fraud. She came to this on her own without me saying a word. She actualy liked him when he was first elected.

[pagan]

Race has nothing to do with him being a fraud, that comes from lying to get elected.

[RainDog]

Since when is "African" a Race? Just to show you how bad this is, my 67 year old mother even thinks he's a fraud. She came to this on her own without me saying a word. She actualy liked him when he was first elected.

I guess in the same way that "African American" is a race. In other words, it isn't really, but it's how people self-identify.

From the 2000 Census under "Race":

"Black or African American. A person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa. It includes people who indicate their race as 'Black, African Am., or Negro,' or provide written entries such as African American, Afro American, Kenyan, Nigerian, or Haitian."

So he was, like, an African American, 'cept he wasn't an American. See?

[RainDog]

Race has nothing to do with him being a fraud, that comes from lying to get elected.

Lying to get elected? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you! 

[StinkerBell]

Also,  consider that the abstract form therefore someone had to enter bits and pieces from an orginal birth certificate or a form reporting a birth (Which does not mean a child is born in the US) a US parent can register their child's birth.

So although there is a state stamp and a raised seal consider on that abstracted at the bottom of the form itself it was revised in 2001. So it is not like it is a copy from an original birth certificate.

[RainDog]

 And meanwhile, back at the Arizona Senate primary race:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0210/33524.html

McCain must be doin' the Happy Dance right about now.

[StinkerBell]

The reality is that no one on either side would ever let it be known if he was not born on US soil.
It would put this country in chaos, or at least that would be the rationalization of why it would never come to light if it is true.

Now the more cynical side of me says it will come to light after his presidency, and because of the chaos a new Constitutional Amendment would have to come into play to make sure his work is not undone and therefoe open the door for future non US soil born Americans can be president or better yet we lose our country to a one wold order.

[pagan]

RD,

I know, shocking that a professional politician would lie. Sometimes I'm appalled by our elected "leaders."

The 1960 census has only the option of "negro" for blacks, although there is the "persons of foreign stock" choice. It makes sense that birth certificates would reflect the census terminology at that time, meaning Obama's father and Obama himself would have been listed as "negro."

[RainDog]

The 1960 census has only the option of "negro" for blacks, although there is the "persons of foreign stock" choice. It makes sense that birth certificates would reflect the census terminology at that time, meaning Obama's father and Obama himself would have been listed as "negro."

I understand your reasoning, but it doesn't prove that Hawaii used the same terminology. Could have been a blank filled in by the applicant for all I know.

When you find out and it doesn't jibe, then it's evidence. Until then, though, it's just idle talk. Seems to be a lot of that presented as evidence in this claim. Hunches, guesswork, speculation, and conjecture, with no concrete evidence of any sort, do not a case make.

[pagan]

It's a hunch, wrapped in a guess, tied around speculation whilst swirling amidst conjecture.

[glenn kangiser]

The 1960 census has only the option of "negro" for blacks, although there is the "persons of foreign stock" choice. It makes sense that birth certificates would reflect the census terminology at that time, meaning Obama's father and Obama himself would have been listed as "negro."

I understand your reasoning, but it doesn't prove that Hawaii used the same terminology. Could have been a blank filled in by the applicant for all I know.

When you find out and it doesn't jibe, then it's evidence. Until then, though, it's just idle talk. Seems to be a lot of that presented as evidence in this claim. Hunches, guesswork, speculation, and conjecture, with no concrete evidence of any sort, do not a case make.

The problem lies in the fact that it does not make him eligible to be president and the SCOTUS has said no one in the US is qualified or has authority to ask the almighty court to bring it to trial and have the positive proof.  Obama has spent over 1.4 million on attorneys to force the American public to rely  on hunches, speculation and guess work because he does not want to produce the proof.  It would most likely remove him from office and render everything he has done illegal.

The Supreme court is owned.

[cabinfever]

Bah! The left railed against the supreme court after the GWB debacle in 2000. We've entered a new age in which each side will claim illegitimacy when their candidate looses. The only people winning in these debates are the political parties.

"If you think either party is the solution, you're part of the problem."

[glenn kangiser]

Bah! The left railed against the supreme court after the GWB debacle in 2000. We've entered a new age in which each side will claim illegitimacy when their candidate looses. The only people winning in these debates are the political parties.

"If you think either party is the solution, you're part of the problem."

That is why I am right..... I don't like any of them... Now show me a REAL birth certificate.... Of course we havn't had a real honestly elected president in many decades ... they are all predetermined by the elite.

[zion-diy]

Now I wish I could find the original articles about this. I remember when this story first broke and his group posted his certificate on their website. but, then came a person who was born in hawaii the same year who posted his own certificate. looked nothing like the one on Obama's site. from there, it all went downhill. hey, I had to show my birth certificate to get my new drivers license. How hard can it be for a president to do?

[glenn kangiser]

I agree... it would have already been done of there was not a problem, and in fact, Obama and Hillary were working on getting the natural citizen requirement removed a couple years before he got into office.  Others were not going for it so they chose the denial, removing of all information, blocking original sources and using the owned criminals running the Supreme Court (a joke) to block any possible attempts at getting a real trial as they have ruled that nobody in the US is qualified to ask the question.

It really does not matter because leadership of the US is determined by the elite anyway.  How does it get limited to the two possible choices anyway.  All predetermined.  The Russians knew Palin was running with McCain around 4 months before it was officially announced.

Birthers or not, birth certificate or not - it really does not matter as there really is no choice that matters.  It only changes the flavor of pain that the citizens will endure for the next four years.

[StinkerBell]

Now I wish I could find the original articles about this. I remember when this story first broke and his group posted his certificate on their website. but, then came a person who was born in hawaii the same year who posted his own certificate. looked nothing like the one on Obama's site. from there, it all went downhill. hey, I had to show my birth certificate to get my new drivers license. How hard can it be for a president to do?

I recall that article. The reason is the man who shoed his birth certificate showed his full birth certificate and not an abstract certificate. There is a difference between the two.