And so this journey begins...

willie1280 · June 30, 2016, 01:56:37 PM

Almost 4 years ago my dreams of finally owning a piece of "up nort" came true! My wife was never completely on board with the property because it was 3 acres of vacant land on top of mountain (big hill) with only electric service at the road. At the time all we could afford do was stick a camper on top of that mountain. Fast forward to a year ago, we made the decision to sell the place because we were selling our home and moving south (55mi) closer to work and further from the land. Just figured being further away and her dissatisfaction with the place to sell it. Well....that didn't last long for me as all i do is think of being up north. So, 4 months ago we found a piece of property that my wife, son and I all agreed on and was in our price range.

We immediately purchased a cheaper used travel trailer and put it on the property. Since it's a camper it just doesn't satisfy that cabin feel for me, plus it's pretty much useless come winter. So my plan is as follows:
-Move camper
-Build shed where camper was
-Make temp living space in shed
-Sell camper
-Build cabin

This plan works financially as well as helps manage my risk in the event we decide to abort and sell the property for any reason (none foreseen at this time).

I called the local building inspector for that area to request the necessary paperwork to build a shed under 600 sq. ft. and supposedly it's in the mail on it's way.
I've always liked the look of the gambrel roof (surprising for a city boy). My first thought was to do post frame (mainly because i could do ALL the work), get it all approved/inspected and then do concrete at a later time. But i think i'll bite the bullet and have a slab put down and then stick build. So over at barn plans dot com i saw the "baby barn". The 16'x24' with the 10' walls and option to balloon frame the 2nd level looks like the ticket for me! This is the one i'm talking about http://barnplans.com/showcase/15_goldstein/014.jpg

Given the almighty factors (time & money), i want to focus on getting the shed permit paperwork done. Slab down and then get the shed framed and dried in before snow flies here in WI.

So my first question about this design is, what sort of structure do i need to tie the 24' walls together if i don't plan to put the 2nd level in until a later date after it's been approved by the inspector?

Don_P · June 30, 2016, 08:42:25 PM

The truss engineering sheet should be checked for horizontal deflection at design load... or have a local truss shop design a gambrel truss. The truss could include the second floor as its bottom chord.

That would solve another framing problem I see in that pic, the gable end framing is incorrect. Studs should run unbroken between points of lateral support. Notice the top plates of the gable walls occur in air. In that pic the gable end with the loft, the top plate should be under the loft floor. The cathedral end the studs should run from bottom floor to rafters in one piece, unless there is a 2nd floor providing lateral support. Fireblock studs at no more than 10' intervals

July 01, 2016, 06:02:06 AM

I built my 28 X 48 barb from barnplans plans. I do know that at least in the larger sizes, the loft floor is part of the structure, and must cover a certain percentage of the loft. They also require stretching threaded rod across the areas that don't have a loft to prevent the walls from spreading. They do make for a handsome structure- I love my barn!

If you study their site, the building method they recommend is to put up the four walls, build the loft floor, lay out and build the trusses up on the loft floor, then walk them into place. On my barn, the loft is 32 feet long, or 2/3's of the total length.

Hunterscabin · July 01, 2016, 05:34:03 PM

MushCreek,
Awesome idea about doing the loft, then rafters. It was like a spotlight exploding. What a simple, but brilliant idea.Thanks

willie1280 · July 06, 2016, 02:45:24 PM

Well i just got the quote back from the concrete company i want to use.
They quoted $1440 for a 16x24 floating slab that's 4" thick (4k psi) with 10" thickened edges with rebar 3ft apart each way with control joints.
Sounds/looks good on paper...is that adequate for what my plans are?

July 06, 2016, 05:11:37 PM

That sounds like a good price for a slab, and 4" at 4,000 lbs would be sufficient for a garage slab. I don't think the thickened edges is what would qualify as a foundation footing though. For something to support the weight of the walls, roof, live load, wind load, and snow load you'll probably want to have an integral footing.

I just took a look at the 2012 IRC (handy because Ch 4 is a PDF link) at http://codes.iccsafe.org/app/book/toc/2012/I-Codes/2012%20IRC%20HTML/index.html and the concrete footing requirements are given in table 403.1. That also gives you information about required depth of the footing. I'm guessing it wouldn't cost too much more to have the concrete company pour an integral footing and all at once. Even though this is just for a shed, because you'll be living in it you might want to be sure that you and loved ones are in a structure that is safe and sound.

willie1280 · July 07, 2016, 07:22:19 AM

So if i understand that correctly, the integral footing would be if i wanted to put in a load bearing beam/wall down the center of shed?
I'll ask the concrete guy to price that feature out as a seperate line item.

Thanks for the info!

willie1280 · July 07, 2016, 07:29:17 AM

So i got the paperwork from the building inspector. Here is my checklist of items i need to have prior to submitting to him for approval:

1. Obtain zoning/land use permits from town.
2. Design home using standard design tables from UDC or other that meets general engineering standards of the code.
3. Obtain utility approvals.
4. Submit 2 complete plans:
-erosion control
- foundation
- floor layout
- building cross section and exterior elevation views
- tall wall plan for walls over 12' that are unsupported

ChugiakTinkerer · July 07, 2016, 04:18:53 PM

Quote from: willie1280 on July 07, 2016, 07:22:19 AM
So if i understand that correctly, the integral footing would be if i wanted to put in a load bearing beam/wall down the center of shed?
I'll ask the concrete guy to price that feature out as a seperate line item.

Thanks for the info!

I'm no pro, I've just been reading the IRC a lot recently. My understanding is that if you are building this shed in accordance with the IRC, your thickened edges need to be actual footings, not just thicker concrete. Just how thick and wide the footings need to be depends on the building and the soil.

Have a look at the Foundations chapter here: http://codes.iccsafe.org/app/book/content/PDF/2012%20International%20Codes/IRC/Chapter%204-Foundations.pdf

Table R403.1 on page 78 says that the footing needs to be at least 12 inches wide. Wider if you are in poor soil and it qualifies as a two-story building. Section R403.1.4 says that the footing needs to extend 12 inches below grade. If it's a house you need to go below the frost line as well, but for a shed you don't (Section R403.1.4.1 Exceptions).

So as I read it if your thickened slab edges are 12" wide and 12" below grade, with rebar reinforcement as required by section R403.1.3.2, and poured all at one go then you'll have yourself a monolithic slab on grade with integral footing.

Edit to add: I recall something different in the 2015 IRC. Where are you located, and what are your soils like?

July 07, 2016, 06:41:47 PM

Madison is... different. WI does not use the IRC although it sounds like he will allow you to use its tables. etc.
That looks like residential requirements rather than a shed, if so frost depth or frost protected footings, I'd clarify that all around as the concrete contractor bid on 10" thick at the perimeter rather than feet down. Do make sure your plans are for your residential code if that is the case as well.