Question; to Loft or not to Loft?

[Carla_M]

If you have built a cabin with a loft and have lived with it for a while, are you still happy with the decision?

If you had thought about a loft and decided to build against a loft are you now wishing you had incorporated a loft?

I'm not thinking so much about the ease of building with or without a loft so much as how practical do you find the loft? Ease of building the roof and upper area is important, but only has to be done once. I have noted in reading the many topics here that there are good and proper ways, according to building codes, and not so good methods of constructing a loft or cathedral ceiling. That does have an influence on me; I like to do things the correct and proper way. That's a part of my personality, and reflected in my career choices.

I'd sort of like the space of a loft for storage I think, but have not been totally happy with extended stays in a couple of different small cabins with lofts (too cold down below or too warm up above. I'd probably be happiest with a flat ceiling and attic access for storage. Maybe?

Maybe I should mention that I have concluded that 450 to 600 sq feet would suit me. That's quite a range. It is figured on a single story, pretty much. A loft would be bonus space. I don't mind regular upstairs but the eveness of heating and cooling is a concern as is the huge chuck taken by proper stairs. No ladders for me, thank you, unless it was storage only access.

[Don_P]

For me, if I wanted to live in a tent... but I do like a low pitched cathedral. A 4/12 pitch springing from 8' walls yields ~12' peak height inside, still human in scale but with some flair. We used to build these with stick framed walls that we had built pockets into to support widely spaced 4x12 rafters and exposed T&G decking. Google "Deck House" or AWC's Plank and Beam pdf for the basic style, I hope,... I have not looked them up in some time.
This could also work from a precast wall/foundation system like Superior Walls. A radiant slab on grade or daylight earth bermed home could be quick, strong and energy efficient with that combination.

[Carla_M]

Google is wonderful and so are you!   

AWC's Plank and Beam pdf

40 pages. Have some reading to do, but it's half detail drawings and tables of numbers like spans, sizes and a whole bunch of  E in psi which something to do with how elastic wood is.    Never thought of wood as elastic but on second thought it is. Think bow as in bow and arrow.

[Don_P]

Aw shucks 
Which brings to mind an aside I've told before.
Native Americans chose the wood for their bows carefully, often scouring ridgetops and windy areas looking for leaning springy hardwoods. With the aid of a microscope you can see what they knew. in a leaning hardwood cell on the upper side of the heart "tension wood" forms. Woodworkers know this cursed wood if they've ever tried to put a fine finish on tension wood. It cannot be sanded fine but always fuzzes.

Inside the cell walls is a unique layer to leaners, the G or gelatinous layer. a rubbery substance that the tree uses like rubber bands trying to support and pull from the upper surface of the tree to hold it upright. It yields higher pull weight than "normal" wood of the same type.

3 posts, totally derailed, a new record

Feel free to return to our regularly scheduled thread.

[DaveOrr]

Aw shucks 
Which brings to mind an aside I've told before.
Native Americans chose the wood for their bows carefully, often scouring ridgetops and windy areas looking for leaning springy hardwoods. With the aid of a microscope you can see what they knew. in a leaning hardwood cell on the upper side of the heart "tension wood" forms. Woodworkers know this cursed wood if they've ever tried to put a fine finish on tension wood. It cannot be sanded fine but always fuzzes.

Inside the cell walls is a unique layer to leaners, the G or gelatinous layer. a rubbery substance that the tree uses like rubber bands trying to support and pull from the upper surface of the tree to hold it upright. It yields higher pull weight than "normal" wood of the same type.

3 posts, totally derailed, a new record

Feel free to return to our regularly scheduled thread.

[Squirl]

It depends. If your energy code is high, it is difficult to achieve with a loft.

Lower slopped roofs are easier to roof.

Cost per usable square foot is close to the same.

[Don_P]

 That might be my new avatar 

A low pitched roof is very difficult to add a porch roof to later, if you want a porch it does need to be in the design from the beginning.

[GSPDOG]

Lofts really deserve more lofty discussion. (bad pun I could not stop myself)

So growing up as a kid my Grandparents had on in their house.  When we visited as a kid we loved it and 7 male grandchildren it was probably a good place for us.   I don't remember them using it much.  The earlier discussion we had they can get hot, can be mitigated with proper ventilation but they are always going to be that way to some extent as the roof catches more direct sunlight than any other part of the building.  So I have rethought this a bit and thought put a loft in the Grandkids will have a blast but will I use it much when I am 80?  Probably not.

I have seen some very attractive open lofts, just ends up being a personal choice,  I do like that you can increase the square footage on the same footprint.

[Carla_M]

Yes, maybe for kids. I also like the idea of a low vaulted ceiling for the aesthetics (as suggested by Don_P). Gives an interesting visual, not as bad for heat/cool, compared to a 12/12 pitch.  Thanks all.

[OlJarhead]

Love the loft!  It makes excellent 'spare' sleeping room for our kids (mostly all grown now but often join us) and storage.

Wouldn't live without it!

[Davegmc]

Seems to me that having a 1/2 valted ceiling and 1/2 loft is kind of what distinquishes a cabin from a house (or cottage).

[UK4X4]

With my redraw of the house layout- we added a loft- basicly for my daughter to sleep and play and watch TV - its not really high enough for a real room- and to close it off would have spoilt the look.

Having a 18ft high bed and bath ceiling made no sence, so we have added 4x8 beams and 2x6 T7G to provide a nice ceiling to the master bed -bath and 3/4" of the kitchen

So the new design is 2and 1/2 and half rather than the original 2 !

[SouthernTier]

I can't answer your question, because I haven't built my cabin yet, so I don't know whether I will like my loft or not.

But I will explain why I am designing a cabin with a loft, even though as Squirl says, it makes it very hard to meet energy code.

At first glance, it seems weird that I am hell bent on building a cabin on my land in the woods. I got the land because I am an outdoors person.  I like being outside.  In the woods.  So why in heaven's name would I want to build something to get out of the woods?

The answer of course is sometimes it rains and/or gets cold.  Plus it is nice sometimes to have a little bit of light at nighttime and not have to cook everything on a camp stove.  Or have a place to store stuff so you don't have to load up the car with all kinds of stuff every time you go there (and do it again to return home).

But the point still is to be out in the woods.  So I want a cabin that has a big wall of windows facing the woods and the valley, with two big sliding doors that open up onto an outside deck (no matter how much that hurts me running rescheck).  I want to still feel like I am in the outdoors even if technically I am (temporarily) not.

The best way to have a big wall of windows with a deck out the two double sliding doors is to build a cathedral ceiling.  In the back, not that the view is worse, it just makes sense to put a loft there, since I already am going to have fewer windows in the back for the bedroom and bathroom (and to meet energy code).

And if it is not raining and it's warm, I don't intend to change how I sleep there from the way I do it now:

[OlJarhead]

Why would a cabin in the woods be subject to energy code requirements?

I guess if it's intended as a permanent home you could argue that it must but otherwise why on earth would it matter?  For one, few cabins in the woods use the grid for energy in my neck of the woods so unless you're building on grid cabins (which sorta defeats the purpose for me) then what does it matter?  Chances are you will use it so little it won't matter much (one weekend a month?  Two?) and will likely heat it via wood heat from thinning out the forest (needed in most places) etc....plus having a loft shouldn't impact the ability to retain heat either.  After all, you could put an R38 roof on a cabin with a loft just as without....sure a 45 degree 12x12 pitch is hard to roof but it's better able to handle snow loads (which tend to run off rather then stay on) and catch more winter sun (in my area the sun is at 48 degrees) thus heating up the roof if it's set to catch the sun....I'm sure there are lots of other benefits.

[Carla_M]

Thanks for the input thus far. It seems that most respondents are happy with what they have. No complaints from either the yes or the no side. I suppose it is really a matter of personal like and dislike and we're all able to choose what we like as far as design goes.

Other factors like is the roof easier to build with a lower pitch enter into the choice but the real question is being happy with either a loft or no loft. I try to put the utility of it first and then work the other stuff around it as best can be done.

I don't know if a loft makes it a cabin instead of a house? I remember lots of what were called cabins from my youth and don't recall any lofts. Could be a faulty memory.

I do like a moderately pitched ceiling better than the high pitches. I think. I think that also might be complicating the roof and ceiling design but it does only have to be done once.    This is just a detail to be decided along with others. At present it is all just thoughts anyhow.

Oh, one other thing about lofts. Lofts require a method of access. This is maybe a personal thing, but I do not like having to use a ladder or very steep stairs. Easy to negotiate stairs take up way too much floor space. If I did do a loft for storage of off season items I could handle a ladder, but not for me to crawl up to sleep each night. And I'm through with having kids.

The question "Why would a cabin in the woods be subject to energy code requirements?" was raised. I say why not?  Being on or off grid has little to do with it IMO.  I believe conserving energy is a matter of being a good steward for the land we temporarily inhabit. The cabins I have visited all had auxiliary heat from propane, oil or grid power. All had wood burners of some kind too. Many had A/C, some dual function heat pumps like split minis. Even burning wood for heat has a cost of fossil fuel use. Firewood doesn't present itself all cut, split and delivered. Well it could but not for me.

But that is almost beside the point. My thoughts are that even if I was burning wood for all space heating I'd rather keep the amount of wood burned to a minimum. Better insulated space means less work cutting and collecting and more time for something else. It also means a better comfort level to me. I lived in a newish low energy home for a couple of years in CA. The energy efficiency made a huge difference in the amount of time the A/C or furnace actually had to run. So I'm taking that experience along with me to my dream of a cabin.

I would like the independence of solar electric though, but a lot depends on grid connection costs and cost of the solar equipment you would need to do what you want to do.

In my dream, my cabin will also be my home; if not immediately then at a future date. Another reason for better energy efficiency. You never know how plans may be altered and it's easier to cover things in the planning and building stages than later. At least that's what I think.

Talking about being grid connected reminds me that the most important physical connection to the outside world is the data line.

[Carla_M]

Forgot something. From  limited experience it does seem there is likely to be many mornings when a small amount of heat is needed to make it comfy when you get up. A propane heater is ideal for that use. Easier to regulate without overfiring too. Burning propane is more costly without adequate insulation. May not even be necessary with great insulation.

Even if there were no energy standards I think I'd be all for doing as much as possible on the insulation front.

[SouthernTier]

Oh, one other thing about lofts. Lofts require a method of access. This is maybe a personal thing, but I do not like having to use a ladder or very steep stairs. Easy to negotiate stairs take up way too much floor space.

This is true, but I plan on making lemonade out of that lemon.  I plan to turn all the space under the stairs into storage.  A closet on the high end, and on the lower ends, I plan to build in shelves and drawers to replace the need for a bureau in the bedroom.  So, much less of a waste of space if I do it right.