20x30 1.5 story question

[devildog]

O.K., I spend more time trying to figure things out by going thru old threads and the homepage trying to make sure I know what I want to do. Then spend weeks thinking thruthings, trying to make sure I know what im doing, and that I understand everything. And It seems like everyone else on here just goes for it. I wish I was more like some of you.
I can honestly say my biggest obstacle is the distance between me and my property. I know if I lived closer I'd already be started. But 7.5 hrs on aweekend is going to be tough, so to get this thing going Im going to have to hire alot of things out.

Im about 95% positive I want to build the 20x30 1.5 story. and as I said on another thread my building inspector said I didnt need plans for this as long as it is build to code. And the most frustrating part is talking with potential sub-contractors and trying to explain to them what im trying to do,without fully understanding it myself. Anyway theres alot more tomy frustration with this, but Im going to try to proceed and take one step at atime.

My question is: On the 20x30 plan w/crawlspace foundation, how would you put a beam thru the middle for floor joist? and if I hire someone to build it without it being on the plans, wouldnt or shouldnt they know what to do?Is this on the plans?(I havent puchased them yet, I intend to when Im at 99%).If the beam is on the plans let me know this will solve alot.
also,Is the floor sturdy enough without the center beam? It seems like it would be easier to do without it, but ive noticed alot of people added it.
I would appreciate all the help, ideas,thoughts, and your experience with this. Imcurrently seeking bids for a foundation and need to be able to explain what I need and want without going up there yet.

unfortunately,this is only the begining of many questions. Thank you. Darrell

[John_M]

Any good, reputable foundation contractor will ask you if there are beams and where they are located.  They will install pockets in the foundation for the beams to rest in.

[n74tg]

Darrell:
Unless I have totally misread your post, why are you wanting to build without plans?  Is it because you think the plans are too expensive to buy or have drawn up by someone else?  

One of the main advantages of building from plans is that most of the code compliance items will have already been addressed in the plans.  Build it according to plans and you're likely building it according to code.  The other advantage of plans is that how things fit together has already been thought about.  Imagine, winging it from memory only to find that where you want to put your toilet is right on top of a floor joist.  Working from plans, that likely wouldn't have happened.  

Going without plans, you won't know that it isn't according to code until you fail an inspection and have to tear it apart and rebuild, very time consuming and expensive.  

Now, if you are an experienced carpenter with years of building experience, then maybe you could swing it with no plans...and still manage to be code compliant.

As for others on the forum "just going for it" instead of spending a lot of time trying to figure out everything first - I'll bet most if not all of them are working from plans; and most/many of them have already done the trying to figure out stuff - they just didn't write about it in the forum.

Lastly, I would be much more bothered about the problems of having to drive 7.5 each way than I would ever be about plans vs no plans.

Good luck with whatever you choose...keep us informed of the progress.

Did anybody say, we like lots of pictures.  

P.S.  Read my house building blog (address below).  I am working from plans, and there are still a thousand problems to solve that only a genius could have forecast before building started.

[devildog]

John M, Ithought so also . How are these pockets made(any pics?)? Are they made in the cinderblock,are they made w blocks? I dont know if Ive ever seen this. Here in florida everything is slab.

n74tg, I am going to purchase plans. But just wanted to know if the plan foundation sheet had it with a beamin the center. The only things Id be adding on the plan is a12x16 room with a shed roof, and a 4x12 utility room with ashed roof. I know ill have to have footers for the beam to rest on, but the pockets john m talked about Im having ahard time getting how all thats figured out. Im sure you'd have to know the dimensions of the beam size first to know how deep to make the pocket.

anyway, thanks for your responses. darrell

this is what it looks like

[devildog]

Im still hoping to hear from someone who built the 20x30 without a beam going down the center. does your floor feel solid? did you use 2x12 or something else?

[rwanders]

You can span the 20' width by using wood I-beams (TJI's or other brands) 2x12's would be unsuccessful unless you are building a trampoline. Suppliers of engineered wood products can provide guidance on size requirements. Why are you so opposed to center beams?  A few extra sonotubes and a beam will not be a great expense and will provide a great deal of stability as well as support for interior weight-bearing walls.

[Squirl]

The beam may actually be less.  You would have to price it on local building conditions, but with a beam down the center you can use boards spaced farther apart and smaller.  2x8's 24" O/C will span 10ft as a opposed to doing a 2x12x20 12" O/C.  I will price out these two options at local prices around me. 32(2x12x20) would cost around $640 ($20 a piece), as opposed to  34(2x8x10) would cost around $240 ($7 a piece).  The addition of a few 4x6's and a beam should be less than $400.  A good picture of the pockets can be found in the graphic guide to framing and other basic framing books that should be in your local library or can usually be found through a library exchange system.  Also you don't have to worry about the transport and delivery of 20 ft beams.

BTW, where are the stairs?

[MountainDon]

The 20x30 plans are drawn up using the perimeter foundation and full width engineered glulams, IIRC. The plan set also comes with an alternate floor sheet using a central beam and 2x joists.


One thing to consider about using full span engineered units is their length. Those 20 footers need to be transported to the site. Some building spots might make that difficult or more expensive than using shorter 2x materials.

[devildog]

rwanders, thats good! I LOL over the trampoline bit.

Squirl, thanks for the info, less cost is good, as long as its solid.

MountainDon, thanks for answering one of my questions. I wanted to make sure that the center beam option was in there.Ive already purchased the VC plan and not going to use it. Well Ill see about that, I might have a future plan for it.

Darrell

[tc-vt]

Hello Darrell,

I built a 20x30 1.5 story in northern Vermont in 2004-2005.  Here are some of the things I either would have liked to have done differently or am happy about the way I did them:

Siting the house:  I oriented a 30 foot wall facing south, but wish I put the kitchen on the north wall.  That would have given me more windows facing south.  If you are building in a warmer climate than VT, I guess having more windows facing south and fewer facing north is not as important.  Siting the house is really important.  Don't place it in one of the best places on the parcel that might be enjoyable without a house on it.  Make sure it is conveniently placed for water source, septic location, electrical service, road access and plowing.  Put the house up high.  If the land is flat, bring in some fill or grade what you have if it can be properly compacted.  A house sitting up higher than the surrounding grade looks better than a house that is down in a hole, rain water is shed away from the foundation and it provides altitude for septic drain.  Mine is sitting on 2.5 feet of compacted stone and gravel (using a rented Wacker compactor) at a cost of about $1500 for the quarry materials.  I wish I went a little higher.

The upstairs knee wall would be best at a four foot minimum height to have a good amount of very usable space.  Mine is about 34 inches.
Actually, I wish I went ahead and built a full second story.  It gives more livable space, more full height walls for furniture and hanging things, and most of all more space for windows.  The cost is not that much more when compared to the 1.5 story.

I built on a slab and am glad I did.  The cost is close to that of piers and a framed first floor, and probably much cheaper than a framed floor if you do a finished concrete floor surface, saving on floor coverings on a framed floor.

I used I-joists in the 2nd floor and trusses in the roof.  This created an open plan and flexibility for wall placement.

Thinking things through is good.  I do it to the point of analysis paralysis.  Some of the details that were endlessly mulled over didn't really matter in the end, but I'm sure there would have been more mistakes or regrets without thinking things through.  Good luck. 

Tom

[devildog]

Thank you tc-vt, I appreciate your insight ,having already built. One of the things you said really stand out to me.that is building higher out of the ground.This is something very important,drainage is what I do for aliving.I actually grade the lot to prepare it for sod,but all water needs to shed off the property. The higher the house sits, the easier this is.
Unfortunatelymy septic had to be higher than my house, but I can work that out with a simple system. The biggest challenge Ive had with my property is its size,although its 2.248 acres,the best view/place was a knole that was only about 130'x130'. I was approved for a 3br,but put in a 2br because the drainfield(with 3 -90' lines)tookup almost the whole area. I could build the house. but only had a narrow driveway and could not turn around.my wife, would for sure have our car over the hill.

The part about all this that frustrates me the most is the distance(7.5hrs)from my property. I cant just jump in the car with a 100' tape measure to see how everything fits.I have to schedule a time and drive all the way there. I have some contractors that are going to look and give me bids on my foundation. well guess what, I havent pinned out the corners yet. so next weekend Ive got to make a trip. and I need to make the best of it so I need to plan ahead and see what else I can do while Im there.Im trying to enjoy the process, and im looking forward to one day living there, But just as you said, some of these detailed things that I spend  hours mulling over wont matter in the end.Im just afraid of doing something I wish I didnt later or not doing something else that Ill regret in the end. I do plan on living here the rest of my life
Darrell