Need some thoughts.....advise, soon! :-)

[timj]

Now, I need a little advice.  lol....I have been lurking on here for quite a while now. I have seen many of these little houses built on concrete peers, or columns of various types, up off of the ground.

The problem I see with that is this: Getting the water line from underground, up into the floor exposes it. Those building with this type of construction in the north, must be using heat tape or something like that, as you would do a house trailer. In a power outage you would risk pipes freezing.

I want to avoid the expense of alot of excavation, treanching, footers, laying block, etc. so I had an idea......(always dangerous).

What if I set 4X4 treated posts on 5' centers around the perimeter,down 4', set in dry concrete. They would extend out of the ground 2'. I would then put a treated, toung and groove skirt board on them just as you would do a pole building. On top, a flat "cap board" where you would start your sill if it were a block foundation. A couple of center posts to support the center beam, and I would be ready for floor joists.

The main floor would be 20'X20', one story with a loft. A porch on each end then added with their own posts with no skirt. On the inside of the "skirt", I would add 2" of foam board to insulate the "crawl space".

I know, even treated wood will eventually rot, but I will be 60 years old when this house is done. If it only last 30 years..............I'm good! lol

What say you? I intend to rent an auger Friday after work if I do it this way!  :-)

Thanks, Tim

[Don_P]

A permanent wood crawspace would do what you are talking about plus add lateral stability to brace the building and if done correctly would not be at risk from frost heave.

[Squirl]

4x4 is usually too small for a house in the north with a decent snow load.  I don't know what beam sizing you are considering, but the largest you could go is 2-2x12's which is pretty close to the ICC minimum, depending on different factors such as snow load or center beams.

I've seen what you are proposing done.  I've also seen people use treated plywood.  I've also seen people insulate the water line and floor.  I like the idea of a PWF crawlspace as a better return on invested time and money.

[timj]

4x4 is usually too small for a house in the north with a decent snow load.  I don't know what beam sizing you are considering, but the largest you could go is 2-2x12's which is pretty close to the ICC minimum, depending on different factors such as snow load or center beams.

I've seen what you are proposing done.  I've also seen people use treated plywood.  I've also seen people insulate the water line and floor.  I like the idea of a PWF crawlspace as a better return on invested time and money.

I will be using all rough oak above the treated skirt. With a center post in the crawl space, I would use a double 2X10 with plywood glued between as the center beam. That would only be a 10' span between the foundation and center support, a total of a full 4"X10" oak beam. The floor joists will be full 2X8's

[Squirl]

What is the snow load?  I have a 4ft frost line too and mine is 50 lbs.

[ScottA]

My water line has 2" of insulation on it. When it gets really cold I leave the water dripping at night. It survived -28 last winter.

[timj]

What is the snow load?  I have a 4ft frost line too and mine is 50 lbs.

Here, we are at 20 psf.

Tim

[archimedes]

Nice looking property.  Looking forward to following your build.

Any building code/inspection requirements where you are?

[Squirl]

Also if I understand the post correct you are going to set the 4x4 treated posts directly in the concrete and down 4 ft. to the bottom of the hole.  There are a few issues with this.  The post will be buried below grade in the concrete.  PT posts at the big box retailers are not built to handle this.  It would not likely last 30 years.  It shouldn't last many years and may expire before you do.  You also lose much of the value of the concrete's compressive and distributive capabilities is the post extends to the bottom of the hole.

A large enough base to the post is always important.  Footings distribute the load to the soil.  I don't know the bearing capability of your soil.  If you are just building a small place in the woods and you don't mind the foundation possibly shifting then disregard.

[MountainDon]

My advise would be to have your plans for everything structural, roof down to the foundation drawn out in detail before lifting a shovel to begin digging. That is, unless you have designed and built many many buildings.  I believe Don_P's suggestion of a permanent wood crawlspace foundation has a lot of merit when the cold winter temperatures are accounted for. It is a little more work but does result in a better stable platform for the house.

When discussing builds it also helps to remind the rest of us where your build is located. See the following link for how to insert in into the sidebar under your ID/avatar
http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=4973.0

[timj]

Nice looking property.  Looking forward to following your build.

Any building code/inspection requirements where you are?

Thanks Arch! No building codes here! lol....I found a piece of property up the road about a mile that was considerably cheaper than this. It is just across  the twp. line though. The other twp. is zoned, and has some extremely tough guidelines, including a min. sq. footage of 1200! I could paid $500.00 and applied for a variance, but I still could have been turned down too. I decided to build here instead!

SQUIRL,

Thanks, good point on the footing at the bottom. I think I will pour the bottom of the hole with concrete first and let it set up. Yes, this is just a "little cabin in the woods", but I don't want it shifting and leaning. lol.....

Tim