Very Wet Footings

[optionguru]

I went up to my land this weekend after a solid rain storm and realized that the lot is very wet.  There is a slope to the lot so I can build a litle further up the slope but then I lose some of my lake view.  

I noticed that there are a number of spots where water is trickling down the slope and then goes underground and reappears further down the slope.  The previous owners had put up some cinder blocks and built a rough platform for camping on top of pallets.  6 year later the wood has mostly rotted and the platform is quite crooked.  Sorry about the long story but my question is, are there any special considerations when digging and pouring the footings and piers in wet terrain like this?

I don't know if you can tell here, but this is from about 3/4 of the way up the gradual slope where the lot is drier.  You can tell how much the lake view would be obstructed from here, I would rather not cut down all the trees.


Thanks again,
Peter

[John Raabe]

My rule of thumb is don't build where the soil stays wet any length of time. Don't build in a spring. Don't build in an area that won't drain quickly.

There are lots of parcels of land that should not have a building put on them. They can be nice places to visit in certain times of the year but you don't want to build a house there. Buildings that are built on wet land are often abandoned after a few years.

In some cases it is possible to dry out a building site with a french drain. These can be expensive since you may need to excavate and backfill with drainage material three sides of the building site. And you must have somewhere to drain the outlet.

[benevolance]

The french drain is a smart option...Also another option is just trucking in a couple loads of say 1 or 2 inch clear stone... building up the site where you want to build say 3-4 feet with the stone and then a inch or two of soil for grass etc....

As long as you are not planning on putting in a basement I think you would be okay....

I am not sure how large you want the yard to be...Stone is expensive...$250 a load most places...If you want to have a nice yard you might need 10 loads of the stuff...But it will definately take care of the wet/ water drainage problem

[optionguru]

That's an interesting idea since I own my own dump truck.  Do you think you could lay the stone right on top of the ground or would you have to dig out the whole area first.  I don't really need a yard, the kids will spen most of the time on the lake or on the deck I plan on building.

Thanks

[JRR]

If you are planning a permanent residence, I agree with John ... "don't".  Over a long term, sewage disposal could be a problem on such property.

If you are thinking of a vacation/weekender sort of place, I would suggest a high stilt-house approach.  This would not require any build-up of the ground and would give good air flow under the flooring.  Many years ago there were several fishing camps built this way around marshy gulf-water inlets in north-west Florida.  The stilt houses, in some cases, would be actually built into the waterway.  Don't know if they still exist or not.  Probably gone by the way of the high-rise condo developer.

[JRR]

Whatever you plan, you first need to dig a couple of test holes to see what the ground is really like.  Preferably done during a dry period, so that ground water will not confuse you into believing you have hit a spring or the water table.  You need to establish how far down the carbon layer goes.  And what is beneath?  Clay?  Sand?

If you decide to build-up an area with stone, I would suggest you first scrape away the layers that contain vegetation.....if possible.

[optionguru]

It is going to be a weekend summer getaway.  I had also thought about using a tree house idea and just placing it closer to the ground.  I'm more confused then ever now.  As far as sewer I was thinking of an incinolet or a composting toilet.

I really appreciate everyones ideas.

[John_C]

While I agree that building in a very wet area brings with a whole new set of problems, many house have been built in very wet places.  Often they used variations of the pier or polr foundation.

I remember sailing between the stilt houses out in the middle of Biscayne Bay




There web site dedicated to preserving the remaining houses.
http://www.stiltsville.org

[optionguru]

It's funny you mention Biscayne Bay.  Before moving to NH I lived in Ft. Lauderdale and one of my fondest memories was taking my boat down what I could only describe as a street in the water.  It's too bad that Stiltsville became uninhabited.

[glenn kangiser]

If you have the spot you want I wouldn't be too confused about it.  I would just do what needs to be done.


First thing is if it's wet it should be easy digging.  Get a posthole digger and dig a deep hole - see if it fills up with water- then go to the next step.  My dad's house has water directly 20 feet behind it and -probably under it, and it has been sinking for 60 years - they keep jacking it up.  In case of problems a crawl space could be a consideration to have room to re- level - a small house is not near as much problem - but if you find water then I would do the next thing and that is to install drainage above the site as John mentioned - ditch - perfed plastic drain pipe is cheap - sock on it with rock to the depth you want to drain to.  Do the test hole - maybe several places then we can talk about it more.

They are just now installing French drains at dad's.  You could do it first.  You could did the ditch by hand or with equipment - your choice.  First try the holes to see if there is a real problem.

[MikeT]

Wherre is this?  And are there any other buildings around the lake?  If so, how long have the been there and what prep work did they do prior to building?  Can you get a soils engineer out there to give you an educated analysis of what you face?  Do you know a landscape architect?  They typically are the folks on bigger projects who deal with siting decisions.

My own sense is that you should be able to identify a realistic strategy to build a house that will last.  But you should have a full sense of the situation underneath.   Only then can you make good decisions moving forward.

mt

[Mark_Chenail]

John and the others have all given you excellent advice on contending with wet land and proper foundation work and I wouldnt presume to put in my two cents with the experts.  I just wanted to address your legitimate concern with losing the lake view.  The picture is a bit dark but the site looks a bit like the one I have near my pond.  Its a very steep slope to my pond, far to steep for my wheelchair so I have to enjoy my view from a good distance.  My friend Levi took a couple of days one summer to clear the view for me, cutting the brush and  lifting the level of the first branches to open things up and you would be amazed at what a difference it made.  We only lost one or two very small trees and a lot of brush and frankly I dont miss them at all.  I think if you did the same thing down near the lake, you might be pleasantly surprised.  Might be worth a day or twos work just to see if the higher drier location might work better.  Heres a pic of Levi and the partially cleared slope.  He made a sort of tunnel effect that frames the  pond nicely.  Hes standing about as close as I can get with the chair.  It drops off a lot from there.  Good luck with it.



ADDENDUM:  I took the picture of your lot and painted out the brush and a few trees near the lake line to give you a very vague idea of how the view might change.  Hard to tell scale in the pic so you might be able to do more than I did., but you get the idea.

[Amanda_931]

Or...pay attention to the story of the old Japanese tea ceremony guy who was the master at telling people how to capture views, site their buildings.  Finally after years of being the consultant, he built his own, in a gorgeous, wild setting.  

People couldn't wait to see how he'd done it.

They were very surprised when they walked in and saw, fences, nearby trees, and so on.  Why hasn't he used that wonderful view, they wondered.

Someplace along the path there is a place for you to dip water up so you can wash your hands (I think).  As they did this, the most natural way to have your head had you looking out at the view.  

Need lots of careful maintenance.

[optionguru]

Mark thanks for taking the time, I think my project for this fall is to try and clear out some of the low hanging branches before the snow comes.  Then next year when all the leaves are back on the trees I'll have a better idea of where I need to build.

Amanda, I think that story came pretty close to going over my head.  The Japanese mans a little more Zen than I am.  I want to be able to see the view from everywhere in the cabin.

[Amanda_931]

I can see that from the point of view of the tea ceremony having the view all the time might be good.  But from the point of view of a house, maybe it would be good to be really really impressed by your view when, say you hauled water from the well.

Although I sure do love to sit on some friends' patio and watch the sunset with them.  They don't ever seem to get tired of it, and they live there.  But that may be for a short time of sunset.  

Actually when I'm there, I love looking out at their view almost any time of the day or night.  But they are quite capable of going about their daily lives and not being impressed.

Christopher Alexander mentions enjoying your morning coffee with the view.