30x40 Earth Berm Passive Solar in Maine

[soomb]

BK, will the cores of the block wall be left empty?

[Bishopknight]

Thanks Jeff,

Soomb, yes. Primarily because pouring sand in them at the time would've been a very arduous task. Plus I felt that the overall weight of the blocks and slab combined ( around 125 tons ) was more than enough insulated thermal mass already. I suppose we'll find out next winter.   

[karnf]

Thanks Jochen for the cedar shake website; very helpful.
Hey Bishopknight! Please help. Remember the guy who was selling the #1 grade cedar shakes at $250?
We got the sale but now my husband is kinda backing out for he says he knows little of the shake concept
but thinks it seems like a lot of work but knows it is a good deal. How long did it take you to install? He is
kinda worried for we are having a very cold snap and may have to wait to put on till spring. Can you help
me convince him but be honest. Is it worth the work involved? I have reading that the shakes last a long
time and these are cert-label and roof shakes which are stronger than shingles. How is yours holding up
and has it turned grey yet? Please anyone else's advise is welcomed.

[Bishopknight]

Hi Karnf,

Its a repetitive, boring yet easy job. It does take a while to do. If I had to guess how long it took for the 12x16 cabin, I'd say 30 hrs.

Mine is still golden colored, hasn't really greyed yet.

Whether its worth the work involved is dependent on your personal taste. I would say for me, it was a little more expensive and time consuming that I thought initially but it looks nice and rustic.

Considering I even have siding is an accomplishment, Tyvek homewrap seems to be the final exterior siding of choice in Western Maine

[Mike 870]

Considering I even have siding is an accomplishment, Tyvek homewrap seems to be the final exterior siding of choice in Western Maine

Ha so true

[Bishopknight]

No new updates, just a couple of notes of interest as below zero temps as of recent have swayed me from attempting to melt the ice on the slab. This weekend is looking to be in the teens again so I might fore go heating it another weekend, but we'll see.

On a positive note, this time of the year, Lowes seems to be clearing out old inventory and deals are to be had. I scored a Stainless Steel Whirlpool over-range microwave for $133, over 50% off. I also got 26 brushed nickel cabinet handles, normally $3.99 each for .25 cents a piece. I scooped up some mis-tinted 1gal latex paint for .25 cents also. I learned once that you can toss 5 gallons of latex paint in a big bucket, mix it up and you have 5 gallons of good primer paint for a few dollars. Most of the time it will come out grey because of the mix of colors.

As for web deals, I bought 10 white GFCI outlets on ebay for $54 with free shipping. A good deal considering I saw them recently running $29 per 3 pack at Lowes.  10 GFCI will give me 7 outlets in the kitchen and 3 in the bathroom.

Lastly I setup an account with Central Maine Power and started a work order for electrical connections. They are sending out a connection package along with a 1360 - certificate of electrical inspection for a licensed electrician to sign off on. I've decided to go with 12/2 for the entire house for ease of wiring.

[jstig]

Hi Karnf,
You posted a message awhile back on one of my posts.  If you remember I also am planning to build in Garrett County, MD.   I would be interested in seeing some pics of your project - hopefully you can post some.  Your pole structure sounds like an interesting project...

Jim

BK,
Sorry to have hijacked your post....
I am in awe of your earth berm project - very ambitious but you seem to be handling it well!   Your 12 x 16 is more what I plan to build - more of a weekend house - a place to escape from the ever growing Baltimore/Washington area.  I like the cedar shingles too - nice rustic look. 

[glenn kangiser]

Hey BK, you don't have to put the GFCI outlets in every one if you feed off of the first one then the rest are protected, but you would want a minimum of the first one in the line to be GFI.   they will say line and load - the load ones are protected after the first one.  You would want at least a couple circuits in the kitchen anyway -- just though I'd mention that.

[MountainDon]

I've decided to go with 12/2 for the entire house for ease of wiring.

Have you worked with 12/2 before?

I like to stay away from it if the circuit doesn't require it. It is stiffer and more difficult to work with in boxes. That may be just me, but I thought I'd mention it.

And yes, re those GFCI's. As Glenn mentioned you only need one per circuit. Anything downstream from the properly wired GFCI is protected. You need GFCI outlets for for any outdoor receptacles, bathroom, if within 36" of tub, shower, or basin), kitchen counter ( 2 circuits that do just counters,...) ... That's to meet NEC

Also NEC requires use of AFCI breakers for bedrooms. $$$

[glenn kangiser]

http://www.handymanwire.com/articles/AFCI.html

Hadn't seen that one yet.  What will they think of next?  Maybe a breaker that jumps out of the box and runs across the room and jerks a cigarette out of a sleeping persons mouth while smoking in bed? hmm

[Bishopknight]

Rack another one up for the newbie

Thanks guys, I didn't know that. Makes sense though. I already ordered them so I cant return them. I might as well use them even though its technically a waste. At least if I ever go to sell it, it will be apparent to the buyer/inspector that each of those outlets is GFCI protected 

Regarding the 12/2: I read a couple different places that if you're building your own house, you should do the whole thing 12/2 to eliminate confusion, but I can see how it would be more expensive, unnecessary in some low current demanding zones and harder to bend and work with.

I'm probably going to have an electrician meet me out there when the time is right to go over everything.

[MountainDon]

If you run things one line at a time, point to point and connect that to the breaker in the box there should be no confusion.   

Start with marking where things go. Then install all the boxes for that circuit. Run the wires as above. Be sure to leave enough end at each box.

Then go to the second circuit, and so on.

Works best if you draw it all out first so it's easy to follow.

[Dog]

Hey Bishop...maybe you can sell the GFCI outlets on CL if you've changed your mind about them.

Congrats on all those good deals! I've done that with paint before. Actually lucked out with some really cool colors!

I thought for sure you were up there all weekend concentrating on melting the indoor skating rink.... Scouting out the good deals is probably a better use of time and energy. Good Luck

[ListerD]

Bishop - INCREDIBLE job! Simply amazing what you've gotten done in the few weeks since I've looked in.


As to wiring, I'd also read 12/2 was best to use. Looks like I need to read some more

Don's point is good too, we plan on single runs to each room. Possibly even breaking it down to 2 circuits per room (large bays actually not small rooms). One would cover wall outlets and the other would be lighting and ceiling fans. Part of the reason for this is easy transition to off grid power in the long term.

I talked to a couple electricians who had recently done conversions where homes had added in solar/wind power and there were a few issues that wound up costing a lot more in labor and materials. Both electricians recommended the two circuit plan since they could easily be moved from one main panel to the solar sub panel (actually a full sized panel) during the transition. I hope I explained it clear enough. Does this make sense to you guys?

[glenn kangiser]

I believe most plugs are only rated for 15 amps so 14/2 w/ground will carry it, but I also go 12ga as I never know when I may want to use the electric chainsaw in the great room.  

I did not want to mess with any 12v circuits so invert everything to 120/240 as needed.  Once you have built up to handle the inverter loss, then everything else is pretty efficient.  I don't use the search feature where the inverter rests at low poswer - it's a pain - some things don't like it - such as 1 cfl on at a time won't activate the inverter.

[ScottA]

I used 12 ga. for my recepticals but 14 ga for the lights.

[MountainDon]

One would cover wall outlets and the other would be lighting and ceiling fans. Part of the reason for this is easy transition to off grid power in the long term.

Assuming any lights will be CFL or some other form of fluorescent light making each room/area have it's own circuit doesn't make a lot of sense to me. The power draw for a CFL is very low. Each circuit has it's own breaker = $$. With the power draw for lights so low, nothing wrong with 14/2, IMO.

As for outlets, in an off grid home there are probably not going to be as many high wattage loads as in the typical US home, which is what electricians and code folks are used to. Using an electric heater for example is on the list oh highly impractical appliances unless you have loads of batteries and panels, or are also grid tied. Again, IMO. So you likely don't need a lot of 20 amp 12/2 wiring.

As for switching from one panel to another when converting to solar... I don't follow that unless you are going to leave some circuits on the grid and some circuits totally solar/inverter powered. The panels don't care where the power is coming from.  

Two panels (both as mains) can be a good idea if you are grid tied and also have some batteries and an inverter for back up when the grid goes down. That would require circuits to "must have" things like the outlets the refrigerator or freezer plugs into to be independent of the rest of the house. When the grid fails the inverter would automatically switch on to provide AC power to those circuits. When the grid would come back the inverter would switch back to passing grid power through to those circuits. May not be worth the expense unless your grid is very unreliable.  

Assuming by converting to solar you mean switching to AC power from an inverter powered by batteries. If you mean switching to 12 VDC circuits, that's a whole different ball of wax.

[MountainDon]

I believe most plugs are only rated for 15 amps so 14/2 w/ground will carry it,

Yep, there are special 20 amp outlets. They are not needed in most locations. Good for a big window A/C un it or tools in the workshop. "Things" that need 20 amp circuits have plugs with one of the blades set at right angles.

[ListerD]

I believe most plugs are only rated for 15 amps so 14/2 w/ground will carry it, but I also go 12ga as I never know when I may want to use the electric chainsaw in the great room.  

OK, you owe me a keyboard! I just spewed coffee everywhere! 

[ListerD]

Two panels (both as mains) can be a good idea if you are grid tied and also have some batteries and an inverter for back up when the grid goes down. That would require circuits to "must have" things like the outlets the refrigerator or freezer plugs into to be independent of the rest of the house. When the grid fails the inverter would automatically switch on to provide AC power to those circuits. When the grid would come back the inverter would switch back to passing grid power through to those circuits. May not be worth the expense unless your grid is very unreliable.  

That's pretty much the exact reason in your last sentence. Neighbors say there's at a 5-7 day average outage in the winter due to ice storms. They've lived there 10 years and it's held true every year.

We plan to remain grid tied and use that for the heaviest load periods and for obvious other needs (charging when there's been little to no sun, power the heaviest power tools and etc).

Bishop - Maybe I missed it. Do you plan on any alternative power?

[soomb]

Man oh man do I love these discussions.  learning learning learning!

[MountainDon]

So then ListerD, it would seem to make the most sense to divide the system while the house is being wired and have the two separate panels right up front. Makes it easier than fishing wires later.

I'm so used to having underground service I forget about aerial wire storm problems. Years ago we would have frequent outages due to contractor digging errors. But not many at all in the past decade or so.

[glenn kangiser]

I believe most plugs are only rated for 15 amps so 14/2 w/ground will carry it, but I also go 12ga as I never know when I may want to use the electric chainsaw in the great room.  

OK, you owe me a keyboard! I just spewed coffee everywhere! 

I was going to say ..... the bedroom, but didn't want anyone to think I was weird....

[glenn kangiser]

You have to watch out with grid tied as many of the inverters for grid tied are not usable for off grid -- IE: The grid goes down - you are still without power, but then again you need to maintain an expensive battery bank for little reason. 

I have friends with 3000 watts of grid tied panels and when the power was out for a week during the fire they were without power for that week.  So there went the stuff in their freezer and fridge.

[John_C]

...didn't want anyone to think I was weird....