Precast (Superior) vs Site Poured Foundation Wall

[demian(Guest)]

I'm doing a full basement for my 20x24 2 Story Universal and was wondering whether anyone here had any thoughts on using precast, steel studded walls (e.g. Superior Walls; http://www.superiorwalls.com/products_xi.php) as opposed to a standard, on-site poured wall?

The estimates for materials and labor I've gotten from contractors in the Lynchburg, VA area is $9000 for the precast (four 9' walls with 1 door and 2 window cutouts on the 20' walk-out back wall) and $7070 poured (two 8x24, one 8x20 walls and one 2x20 wall, all 8" thick).  It seems like the primary advantages of the precast for me are:

1)  Can be installed in any weather (winter here isn't severe, but can delay things and cause curing issues)
2)  Includes insulation
3)  Doesn't need water treatment
4)  Easier to finish if I ever chose to do so
5)  Supposedly less susceptible to moisture/mold problems (through combination of low water content concrete and directly bonded foam).

My foundation costs have already spiraled beyond my original budget, so I'm reluctant to spend even more, but am willing to do so if I'm only spending a few hundred extra (if future costs for insulation, water treatment, and framing of the walkout wall are taken into consideration) for speed of installation and better moisture control.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Demian

[Daddymem]

I have a project on Nantucket, MA with high-end modular homes where they are using these walls.  I met with a representative of them and they appear to be a decent project. Check out This Old House, they put a home in with these walls and there is a pretty good article on them.  For our project they made sense because the entire basement was finished with bedrooms and bathrooms.  I haven't heard any complaints from the contractors.  
Personally, I would feel just a bit safer behind nice thick concrete walls but then again nobody thought fiberglass or plastic could be strong either.  Look into a gravel shooter to help save some money...these walls require a decent base under the entire basement area since they rely on the slab for some strength if I remember correctly.  The rock slinger can shoot a basement excavation full of rock in no time and you can save money for that.  Have you spoken directly with Superior?  

Found the link:
This Old House
Gravel Shooter

[tjm73]

A freind of mine did the precast thing and had a rubber bladder type thing added befor ethe pieces went in and it's guarenteed dry for 25 years.  So far so good going on about 5 years now.

[jraabe]

This precast steel stud system is an interesting alternative foundation that I was not aware of.

The system has a similarity to the PWF foundation done with PT wood. Both have advantages for better insulation, easier wiring and plumbing and less water problems. For a finished below grade living space it would appear to have strong advantages.

I would explore the drainage and backfill systems used for a PWF and insist on the same here. In fact, if all concrete basements had the drainage system of PT wood basements there would be little problems with future water leaks.

For builder comments on the PWF foundation system and a basic diagram: http://www.lisatec.com/Lisatec%20Residential/PWF.htm

[Daddymem]

Yes, the base and drainage is very critical to these walls.  The wall details are similar to what John posted.
The site our walls went in on had high groundwater (we installed pump basins) and we had walk out basements.  There was an additional frost wall along the walkout foundation wall for our design.

[DemianJ]

Thanks for the advice and links.

My estimate for the precast Superior Walls has been updated to a total of about $10,000 (including $500 freight charge and $600 of additional gravel) which I've pretty much decided pushes the precast walls beyond my current budget.  I'm assuming that framing a 20' wall with one door and two windows and insulating a concrete wall can't cost most that $1000 for materials and labor.  However, if I thought there was any possibility I'd use the basement as living space, I'd probably go with the precast.

Demian

[glenn kangiser]

Have you thought about ICF blocks - stack the foam blocks -brace them -pour them. No forms to build or strip - walls are insulated. Still needs waterproof and rebar.  

[DemianJ]

I had done some limited research on ICF's, but my impression was that for a non-finished basement, even if I did them myself, they weren't much cheaper than poured walls with insulation added on later.  Does that sound right?  Since I don't have any experience with concrete I'm hesitant to start learning with a foundation, even though everything I've read about ICF's makes it sound like they are relatively easy for a careful owner builder to build with.

[DemianJ]

I got some estimates for block ICF's for my 20x24, 8"x8' basement in central VA:

$2300 for block (132 blocks)
Unknown freight costs
$1800 for 18 yds of concrete
$600 pump truck for 5 hrs
$400 Rebar

So that's $5100 for materials only without shipping, the cost of footings (about $1000) or the 4" concrete floor (about $1000).  In comparison, I'm looking at $7500 for uninsulated poured walls (if one 20' wall is a only 2' high), footings, and floor for materials and labor.  

As was the case with the precast walls, I think the advantages of ICF's aren't worth the cost for me since the basement won't be living space.  The sales guy did say the ICF's were very easy to install on level footings (he told me there's a local 73 yrd old guy with no experience who did a garage with them).  He also mentioned another possible expense in that some codes require foam to be covered with sheetrock for fire prevention.

[Daddymem]

There was a place building entire houses with ICFs....now if I could only find the information...and don't forget this CP builder who used ICFs