14 x 24 Olympic Peninsula

[Sassy]

Great to hear from you, considerations!  You've been a very busy & productive lady    Guess there's no smiley holding up a beer mug   

I have one problem with your posting, tho...  Where's the pictures     You coulda at least have posted pictures of your barn, etc...  Glenn had to post pics of all his unnatural resources 

You've really accomplished a lot!

[considerations]

"Where's the pictures?  You coulda at least have posted pictures of your barn, etc..."
OK OK....somehow uploading to Photobucket didn't hit the top of the list....stay tuned...  really...don't touch that dial....

Honestly I think most of us are similar in that we have more items on the list than we will ever get done...certainly I cannot imagine a life of sitting around with "nothing" to do.  Not sure thats even a life....

[considerations]

ok. Pics of 3.5 day barn. metal roof on right half coming Tuesday next.


Head of the pruning platoon, landscape company.


Portrait of boredom.

[Sassy]

Nice work, considerations!  I see you also have a pruning & landscape company    Horses look content... 

I sometimes forget how green it is in western Washington...  guess there's tradeoffs - constant rain & green or sunshine, dry & brown...   isn't there a happy medium?

[considerations]

"isn't there a happy medium?"

Yes, acceptance of where one is.  Each place has its own beauty. We choose what resonates with oneself.

[PEG688]

"isn't there a happy medium?"

Yes, acceptance of where one is.  Each place has its own beauty. We choose what resonates with oneself.

Still waters run deep!

[chris2013]

Considerations, thnx to you and everyone else for this adventure. great that people share like this.

i got to about page fifteen, and like a good book, had to go to the end; but mostly, i have a couple of quick questions that you might have a minute to consider?

am retiring from teaching in three or four years and have some land for a summer place picked out in central Idaho. i noticed around page 13 way back in aug of 2008, you gave a financial accounting up to that point of about 10K. where did you finish, budget wise? at 10k, being half way done i thought maybe you would double that amount and so i was calculating the price per sq ft at about $60. would you now say that that is a realistic budget for a small cabin?

the second question is more of an equine type: with the pasture and lots of green and your own land, what would you say the cost of caring for buckethead is, roughly, on an annual basis?

thnx and thnx to all. it has been and will continue to be fun reading thru the pages.
chris

[considerations]

chris2013 re: $60 per square foot.  This is going to have an awful lot to do with how much you hire out. 

First, I must say I'm not finished. There are plenty of raw edges around here, none of which I believe will substantially add to costs.

I'm able to do more and more of the finish work myself.  I'm down to finishing the wall coverings upstairs, putting up exterior siding, finishing the floor insulation, and finalizing the electrical i.e.; switch plate covers and a few more built-in light installations.  I've got 2 sinks left to hook up.  The good news is that along the journey, I've learned enough to do these things myself and most of the materials and tools are here.

Second, I probably hired more out than some, for reasons ranging from total ignorance (or fear i.e.; the roof) to a drive for faster progress.  My cabin currently is the basic 14 x 24 with 10' walls, a 12/12 roof and an 8 x 24 sun room added alongside. 

There have been a lot of other projects that have been pulled together around here concurrently with the cabin build and to tease out the specific cabin costs is going to be a guess...so consider the "methodology".  I think about $60K has gone to the cabin, perhaps 60% of that being materials. 

One really huge expense in that materials "guesstimate" is the kitchen, which except for the sink hook up, was completely purchased; materials and installation was just under $4k. Major ouch, but so worth it. 

Appliances such as stoves, fridges, water heaters, etc are big parts of costs as are the solar power components.

I am an optimist or I never would have tackled this life style in the first place....however, when estimating building costs, I've learned that the less I know, the more it costs and the longer it takes...so.  I price the materials for a project, I add another 50% for the ancillary stuff I didn't know I needed, and plan on it taking at least twice as long as I thought.  During this research it will become fairly evident whether I know enough and/or have the right tools and/or skills to actually do it myself or if I'm brave or stupid enough to tackle it or just better hire it done.  If I hire it out....I get a quote, in writing.

No kidding about the estimating.  Electrical is a good example; one gets the outlet and switches, the wire, drill bits and think one is ready to go...not.  There are little twisty cones to splice connections, more breakers for the main breaker box, special wire for circuits if one wants a switch in two places, more special wire to fish the electrical wire through difficult spots, switch plate spacers....on and on.  However, having "gotten my hands dirty" when the electrician was here, and inching through the solar power setup on my own has given me the confidence to complete the simple unfinished bits of interior electrical work.

Its fun, nerve wracking, exciting, rewarding, frustrating, sometimes a little painful, and I would not trade it for anything.  I just encourage you to acknowledge up front that there are going to be things you don't know that you don't know...and leave enough room in your time and $ plans for that to happen and still laugh.

Ok, the horses. I have 2, because I believe that being herd animals, they go a little crazy if forced to live alone.

Pastures are pretty much useless (no nutritional value) in the winter, so purchasing hay is necessary from at least late October to early April say 6 months.  For 2 horses that is about 5 tons.  There is a major drought on nationwide and has been for a few years. Hay and grains (thank you bio-fuel industry) have at least doubled in cost in the last 3 years.  I'm paying $335 a ton now for hay that was $150 3 years ago.  So, $2000 for hay, $400 for feed and supplements, $500 each for vaccinations and worming. $450 for farriers (hoof trimming) and nobody but me is wearing shoes right now, double that for shoeing. That totals $3,800.  This does not include vet bills when something goes wrong (figure one "incident" a year), fencing materials and maintenance, tack, shelter, and water.

They also need the time and attention you would give at least a dog if not a child. They are smarter than one might think (ok, some are), and have distinct personalities and moods.  They bond to a family just like a child does. (its a herd thing).

I love them, but if you don't have horses now, please do your research and make sure you are willing to make the financial and emotional investment...imagine gentle thousand pound dogs longing for attention and never underestimate the capabilities of a curious horse. 

I recently had Mr. Buckethead on a long term course of antibiotics, the same kind humans take. Human dosage would have been 1 tablet 2 x a day.  His was 15 tablets 2 x a day.  Adds up.  Of course the antics, tricks, subterfuge, coercion, bribery, and any other magic I had to come up with to get him to actually take them was a source of great amusement (mostly).  Smart boy with prehensile lips.  Who needs opposing thumbs when you have prehensile lips?

Guess what I'm saying is an ATV doesn't cost much when its parked, nor will it develop a neurosis if ignored.  It most certainly won't pick the latch on the stall door, break through the pasture fence, let the horse down the road out and lead a thundering herd down toward the highway, evading all well intentioned neighbors until getting the excitement out of its system.

[chris2013]

Thank you for your consideration. a thorough and complete answer.

[considerations]

"a thorough and complete answer."  You are welcome....then again, opinions are like belly buttons...everyone has one. 

So time to update a little, straw berries are picked and processed, raspberries and salmon berries are ongoing.  I had quite a surprise with the raspberries, they turned out a little different than I anticipated.  Didn't even know this color existed.


I think they taste a little mellower than I'm used to, but will have to try that with a blindfold on to see if my eyes are fooling me.

The climbing roses are finally tall enough to start training horizontally along the trellis


After being invisible for a couple years a juvenile mountain beaver made an appearence. It is so young and small I thought someone's guinea pig had gotten loose. They are not very bright, I think, because as I was driving down the driveway it kept running in front of the vehicle. Even the quail have enough sense to dive into the bushes.  Anyhow, I had time to snatch this little photo on the phone.


I take some comfort in knowing these little guys still exist, in spite of our best efforts. 

Had a tenant problem in the swallow condo this year.  The returning swallows decided they wanted the upper unit this year...as did a queen yellow jacket.  The bad news is that the swallow laid 3 eggs before being evicted...so those eggs got abandoned.


The good news is that the nesting urge was evidently very urgent, so she moved into the lower unit, and as near as I can tell, is raising at least 3 chicks without too much flack from the upstairs tenants. 


There are usually 6 chicks, so I'm pretty sure this is the same bird as laid the abandoned eggs.  I'll be tearing down and renovating the unit after they fledge, and hopefully discourage this conflict next year.

I warned the pear trees that if they didn't fruit this year, I'd tear them out and plant filberts....obligingly they both coughed up a few. One on one tree and about 4 on the other.




Now to find a place for those filbert trees....The English walnut is yet to produce.  All these trees were planted as 2 year saplings in 2007....so maybe next year for walnuts...even one would be a good thing. 

The best news of all is that Mr. Buckethead is finally out of "jail". After 2.5 months of confinement to a 12 x 12 stall, the vet and the farrier pronounced his foot healed enough to allow his access to the paddock...but no green grass...so no pasture.  Come to find out, the long term result of laminitis is insulin resistance...yep, for all intents and purposes, diabetes.  Egads.

So, until and unless he gets a lot more exercise than he has been...no green grass (starch and sugar).  Wow...I wonder if animal medicine has gotten to the point of knowing what blood sugar levels are ok for a horse....and if there is a tester for equines.  Fascinating.  One never stops learning.

Got another raised bed started.  After fighting with the clay soil around here for several years, I've just decided to build raised beds and make my own soil.  Not hard with all the kitchen and equine compost available.  The upside of having to clean a stall every day is an abundance of shavings for mulch.  The weed suppression is fantastic.  I planted potatoes in one of these beds and even though I've hilled the box to overflowing, the plants are almost 3 feet high...I just hope they are as busy making potatoes as they are making leaves.

Enough, its a rainy day, and the house needs my attention.

[waggin]

What's the deal with pears the last two years?  My Bosque and D'Anjou trees blossomed like crazy this year, but I only have a few pears on the D'Anjou and none on the Bosque.  Last year, I had a total of about 20 on the D'Anjou, and that was it.  With all the blossoms, I thought I'd have a bumper crop.  Saw lots of bees this spring, so I figured they were getting pollinated, and it didn't seem like we got any bad wind/rain storms during blossom time.  Any thoughts?

[rick91351]

You are the proud owner of yellow raspberries!!  I know DAHHH!! However we have about 50 feet of them planted and then another 50 feet of purple raspberries.  Neither are doing as well as the reds that are just coming on as well as the Service Berries.  Pronounced SAR - vess berries. Go figure.     They are up at the ranch.

This product of your fur bearing little friends kinfolk gave way last year in the Chinook run off we had.  What a mess it took roads and culverts out.  I always have marveled at there skills and work ethic.



It and a couple more were right next to the road coming out from the ranch.  Have not seem any activity this year.   

Your potato bed if it is loose as it sounds that it might be you can burrow down with you hands carefully and collect some baby potatoes without harming the plant and other potatoes so I have been told.  We knew a lady that claimed to do such all the time.  Saved the cost of those expensive little guys in the market.

I missed out on the horse problem.  Is this sort of like foundering?   

[considerations]

What I've read is that apples and pears are related, also that pollination rates are much lower for pears than for apples. 

So, since May and June were wet and rainy, which my bees don't care for, and my pear trees did not flower at the same time and require cross pollination, I picked flowers from the earlier blossoming, froze them, then marched out with a paint brush when the second tree bloomed to facilitate the pollination. 

I suspect that pears like more heat than apples, seem to be fussier about pollination, and need "help" to produce in Western Washington, when spring is not friendly to bees.

I keep planting more bee friendly flowers, hoping someday to have a hive of my own, when there is enough here to keep them fed. 

There is a great series on YouTube called the Victorian Kitchen Garden...it covers the challenges of a walled estate garden in England.  Point being, their climate is similar to ours, and they use interesting and extraordinary measures to bring heat to different types of fruit for successful cultivation.  Really enlightening. I learned a lot about gardening in a "pre-chemical" world.  Very, very, clever, worth watching.

[rick91351]

What's the deal with pears the last two years?  My Bosque and D'Anjou trees blossomed like crazy this year, but I only have a few pears on the D'Anjou and none on the Bosque.  Last year, I had a total of about 20 on the D'Anjou, and that was it.  With all the blossoms, I thought I'd have a bumper crop.  Saw lots of bees this spring, so I figured they were getting pollinated, and it didn't seem like we got any bad wind/rain storms during blossom time.  Any thoughts?

Sound like you me pear blossom blight.

http://www.ehow.com/facts_7466853_pear-blossom-blight.html

I would spray early with dormant spray.  I would also do a lime-sulfur spay a few day later and before the trees bud.  I think is is okay up until the buds swell.  Sulfur spay is one of the earliest organics known from what I have read.  I have also read you can spray your trees with lime sulfur after your late Autumn clean up to help control spores and fungaus that over winter as well.  You guys with your mild but wet winters and springs might be a challenge but it really think do able. 

This has a real handy guide on the left hand side of the page.  However I am not plugging the company at all.  Never ordered from them or even talked to them.

http://www.johnsonnursery.com/OrchardSupplies.htm

rlr     

[considerations]

"I missed out on the horse problem.  Is this sort of like foundering?"

Laminitis is founder.  "Laminitis" is the modern "vet world" name, "founder" being an older name and describes what happens to the horse when they cannot walk because of it.  Like a ship cannot sail when it has foundered on an underwater obstruction, like a beach or reef.

No foot, no horse. It was pretty bad, agony for Mr. and agony to watch. Started the first week of May, and I got him into a stall on May 8.  Basically it is an inflammation of the lamini (read "nail bed").  Horses have only one toe on each foot, so a hoof is a "toe nail". An inflammation of the nail bed is not good.  The hoof starts to separate from the lamini, which is bad enough, but add to that dirt and bacteria getting into the separation and causing abscesses, and they just get crippled.  There are more and worse possible complications eventually resulting in a fatality, but we seem to have dodged those bullets.

Bottom line is the inflammation somehow comes from green grass or rich feed, there is still a lot to be learned, but seems metabolic in source.  I was stunned, Mr. has been on pasture for years, and this never came up before.  However, there is a famous saying in the equine world: "Hmm, he never did THAT before!".

So now I'm looking at the pastures and thinking maybe cutting them for hay this year. Better than mowing once a week.

[waggin]

Thanks Rick and Considerations for the tips.  I do have some sort of leaf curl/fungus/pest issue that became visible after blossoms fell off, so that makes sense.  Never heard the blossom storing/freezing trick; maybe next year I'll do that just in case.  Seemed like there were lots of bees pollinating though this spring.  Oddly, last year my trees were overflowing with apples, yet my neighbor 3/8 mile or so away didn't have any.  Thankfully, my apple trees are loaded again with tasty Liberties and Akanes.   

[considerations]

Well...the adventure continues. I've always pined for more solar panels, thinking I'd like to run off them more than I run off the gens. (Duhh!)  Current research seems to show that the 160/170watt 12v panels are a dying breed. Cannot seem to find even a close equivalent in the Sharp brand I currently own let alone any other brand I'm remotely familiar with.

However, in a bittersweet stroke of apparent luck, I've located some 170 watt panels...they appear to be 12v.  I've always had to really stretch to understand the whole PV system, but I think these would work.  I'm not wild about the brand "Jinshi" (fill in the source country blank and my personal leaning), but the fact that they even exist...and the price...so; if some more knowledgeable forum participant would like to look at these with me and respond with their wisdom/opinion, I'd be appreciative.  I'd like to get 4, but with racks and shipping, likely less.

I believe I'm supposed to add PV panels that do not vary more than 10% in specifications.

The system is 12v

I have 2 Sharp 160w 12v panels up and running.

My charge controller is a Xantrex C40.

The breaker is a DC 60 amp

The inverter is a Prosine 2.0

The Jinshi panels have MC connectors, which I'm familiar with and like.

http://www.solarsystemsusa.net/solar-panels/panels/jinshi/nbj-170p/

Jinshi:                                                                                  Sharp
Maximum Power at STC (Pmax)    170Wp                                                160w
Maximum Power Voltage (Vmp)    23.6V                                                  22.8v
Minimum Power                         Not listed                                             144w
Maximum Power Current (Imp)    7.20A                                                  7.02A
Open-circuit Voltage (Voc)    28.5V                                                          28.4v
Short-circuit Current (Isc)    7.70A                                                          7.82
Module Efficiency (%)    12.9%                                                        12.21%
Operating Temperature (℃)    -40℃～+90℃                                  -40C - +90C
Maximum System Voltage (V)    DC 1000V(TUV) / DC600V(UL)              600VDC
Maximum Rated Current Series (A)    12A                                           Not listed
Series fuse rating                           Not listed                                             15A
Power Tolerance    0～+3%                                                             Not listed
Temperature Coefficients of Pmax    (-0.45±0.05)%/℃
Temperature Coefficients of Voc    (-0.35±0.02)%/℃
Temperature Coefficients of Isc    (0.05±0.01) %/℃
NOTC (℃)    (47±2)℃

Any brave souls who would like to chime in here?

[OlJarhead]

They appear to be fairly close and I think you're right on the 10% (waiting for the pros to respond) which would be more more then 16watts +/- and you're only 10 watts.  Voltage doesn't seem too far out either.

I went through this when considering getting a 4th panel and seem to think it was 10%.

As for the racks, you could build them out of wood and face them south with a way to change the angle and plan on getting better steel racks at a future date.  After all, the increased charging capacity would be worth it.

[considerations]

So i finally screw up my courage to commit to those new solar panels....and there are no more of them. Back to square one.   

[glenn kangiser]

Considerations, you can use about any solar panels you can get for a decent price if you just add a separate controller for them that will reduce the voltage to a regulated 12v.  It doesn't matter then what else is charging your batteries as the regulators will see the voltage of the batteries and regulate themselves independent of the rest.

I get the cheapest Sunelec panels that will fit my needs and then try to add enough to fill my new added controller.  I fit the controller to the amount of panels I want usually choosing an MPPT now.

Here is a small one -good quality that will do 12v but take up to 75ocv input.

http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/sunsavermppt

Looks like around $230 for that one.

There are other PWM controllers that are cheaper.  C35 Schneider (xantrex) will take 55ocv for $90  C40 will take 125ocv for $120

http://www.affordable-solar.com/store/solar-charge-controller

[glenn kangiser]

Thinking about this a bit I think you would need a C60 to cover the 500 or so watts you want because of the 12v system.  Low voltage system requires bigger amp controller.  C60 should cover up to 720 w @12v.  C60 takes ocv of 55vdc so keep that in mind looking at panels.

[glenn kangiser]

Your C40 could only handle 480w at 12v so you could only add 160w to it or about 1 panel.  Best to add another controller then panels that match up to its capacity - I know... more money.....

[considerations]

Glenn - I have figured out and agree that to use more and different panels I need another controller. There is nothing in the spec sheets that talk about watts, only volts and amps, and I don't have the knowledge to talk to you about maximum watts.

So, I'm looking at the volts and amp specs on the controller and comparing it to the "same" volts and amp specs on the panels...thinking that's a reasonable basis for comparison. 

Frankly, I like to have another 1200 watts...oh well.

I have a Xantrex C40 now, and with 2 160 watt 12v panels on it, I'm nowhere near its spec capacity.  I think if I stick to the 450/500 watt goal on an additional C40 I won't fry my system or my wallet. The C40 can take up to 125 Vdc Max PV open circuit array voltage (ocv?)

This is not the vendor, but here are the specs on the C40
http://www.solarpanelstore.com/pdf/c_series_specs.pdf

I've been talking to 2 places, one is a little cavalier about the panel ratings....they make me nervous, the other didn't call me back yet...we had things pretty well figured out, except for checking on their racking stock....so I'm in limbo till Monday.

Once i get a final "package" settled on, I'll post it here and see what you'all think...I appreciate the input.  After all the work, I don't want to foul up what I already have. 

[glenn kangiser]

Watts divided by volts=amps.  2x160=320watts currently / 12volts = 26.66667 amps

40 amps -26.66667 existing leaves a balance of 13.333333 amps capacity on your current controller.

13.33333 amps x 12 volts (amps times volts equals watts) = 159.99 watts capacity, or one more panel like your existing panels or 480 watts.

If you had a 24 volt system (inverter)  you could have 24v x 40amps or 960 watts on the same controller.  This is what I use.

If you had a 48v system (inverter) you could have 48v x 40 amps or 1920 watts through the same controller.

The volts are the push or pressure through the (electric) hose.... water analogy. Thinking of water makes it easier for some.

The 40 amp hose (controller) can only carry 480 gallons of water (watts) at 12 lbs pressure (volts)

The 40 amp hose (controller) can carry 960 gallons of water (watts) at twice the pressure 24lbs (volts)

Liken this to how wet you get from a low pressure water line or high pressure water line of the same size. 

With higher voltage your cables and wire can get smaller and cheaper as it is easier to push the power through them without excessive line loss - think of friction in a hose.  You then want to connect your panels in series to use higher voltage going into what the controller can handle but not too close as Don has written about the clear cold mornings where voltage will go excessively high and possibly damage your controller.  I stay around 10% below voltage capacity.  It is especially important on mppt controllers to let it choose the voltage the panels run best at.

[considerations]

Sometimes I feel like I'm just swimming upstream..erg.  All prepped to get more PV panels and the inverter blows....not fixable...although I think it is more a function of Xantrex policies than what is wrong with the inverter...Creeps.    

Have had a few days to explore the holes in my non-electric living strategies....not bad, but electricity is much more fun, and much easier. 

At least I was financially prepared to do SOMETHING...just not what I intended...   .and better now than November when I'm gone. Coming home from vacation to a failed freezer can really blow.