Glenn's Underground Cabin Update

[Ernest T. Bass]

Why, thank you kind sir. The new movie will be up in a week or two. It's got a great score, so if it's not worth watching at least it's worth listening to.

[glenn kangiser]

I'll be on it like flies on ... stink...

Can't wait...

[glenn kangiser]

A link to my posting on the hugelkultur thread on www.permies.com and here is a short video of packing the berm on the lower side of the bed.  That wil help to retain the terrace as the Chinese did on the lower sides of their terraces where they did not use rocks.

http://www.permies.com/bb/index.php?topic=17.msg62492#msg62492

Click the pix for a short video.

[glenn kangiser]

Cool site posted on Permies with lots of wild edibles including thistles.

http://houstonwildedibles.blogspot.com/2008/08/thistle.html 

Texas and the southwest including a lot of  things that grow here it looks like.

I'm off to check on the cows shortly.... still no moos from them....

[glenn kangiser]

I went up the hill and checked on the cows......

Exactly where they were supposed to be after three days with no jailbreaks.  They looked at me like... OK, so what do you want?

I gave them a few flakes of hay just for being good....

So, it appears that sometimes.......

no moos is good moos......

[PEG688]

no moos is good moos......

  Don't quit your day job!   

[glenn kangiser]

Sorry 'bout that, PEG.....I knew I was gonna catch it for that..... I couldn't resist.....  

I'll try to do better next time....

On another note.... my rice is about to have babies..

No kidding.  

I went up to check it out today and noticed a whole family of little rices on the stalks of a few plants.

[glenn kangiser]

PEG, a bit of good moos for you today.... coming from the direction of the corral.....

The cows yelled at me as soon as I walked out the door.  They came down the hill and they wanted a reward for checking in.

I sprayed the corral with EM yesterday as it was smelling a bit like a barnyard.  Don't want to offend the neighbors and that was a former concern of mine.  We live in a right to Agriculture area so not a major problem but it is still a good thing to be nice.

All smells of the barnyard were gone today.  I also sprayed the dogs as they had been rolling in a dead animal and smelled like death warmed over....

Those smells were gone too.  

I'm sure the dogs will go out to get a fresh coat but they smelled a hundred percent better today.

While I was at it I had some AEM that was getting a bit old and needed to be used so I sprayed all of the trees and garden areas down with it too.  About a 1 to 30 mix AEM to water.  The EM will go into the soil and fix nitrogen for plants as well as break down organic matter to make it available for the vegetables and trees.  

In Asia, the EM is being used to strengthen natural enemies of pests without killing all beneficial as well as pest insects.  The emphasis is on promoting natural pest enemies  as well as not making the field workers sick from the poisons. Much of the work is done manually there.

They also introduce  natural pest predators and are going toward organic - natural to make a more healthy environment.  This is not as popular in the US as it does not sell chemicals for corporate America.  We want to sell chemical control no matter what the consequences so big business can make big money.





I am pretty sure Bossy Cow is pregnant.  She is consistently more round in the middle than the others....except for Beefsteak who is busy fattening himself up for the table....

Come over here, Beefsteak and let me feel your finger.....

[ben2go]

Question.Honestly I'm not trying to be funny,but why do cows like to stand in mud?Does it feel good to them?I don't get it.

[glenn kangiser]

They probably have lots of reasons.... let me try a few answers.....  

A.  They are already wearing their galoshes so very little reason not to.... hmm

B.  Their mother never told them any better so they just wade right in....

C.  Somebody threw the hay right in front of the mudhole on a dry spot so hopefully it will stay clean and they won't waste it?  

I'm going to go with C. this time because that is what happened..

Cows of course are heavy punching holes in the soft ground and making another place for the next rain to fill up and make even more mud.  I guess cows and mud go together naturally.  It really doesn't bother them one way or the other that I can see so being a bit indifferent toward it, they just stand around in it.

I made a feeder that worked great when I had it well fastened but, I moved it and didn't fasten it down.  Bossy cow stuck her head in it and then got her horns stuck on the pipe and took the feeder with her.  There was a bit of rodeo for a few seconds until she got loose so to keep her from getting hurt I took it out.  If it goes back it will be well fastened.

I went up the hill today to work on the foundation for the underground house I m working on.  There was still snow on the road when I went up the hill.  I got there and it was plain I was not working there for a while.  I need to take the Bobcat back as there are several yards that caved off.  The Bobcat will not go back there until things dry out a bit so I guess I will work on framing here at the house for a while.



This is why I say, watch the sidewalls and try to be aware of where your weak points are.  This was at least 6000 to 9000 lbs of earth and rock that caved off and it spread around 12 feet wide and 6 feet out and 4 feet or so high.   Squishy, eh?....

I was aware that that, as well as another spot that caved were weak spots.

I came back to town and did chores .. picked up a couple trees and some vegetable plants.

Here are a couple points about trees.  I lost a few more than I should have last year because I read the instructions on the bag of one of the bare root trees.

The bag said to not put any fertilizer or soil amendment in the hole because that way the tree roots would not venture beyond the good soil in the hole.  They said no nutrients in the soil would make the tree roots look for nutrients in the natural ground and the tree root system would be stronger.......

Yeah.... right......

Against my better judgment I believed them and more trees than should have died.  Here is my view....

You can't coax a dead tree into looking for better soil no matter how hard you try.......stupid.......stupid.......STUPID.....  

I already tested my soil and there are nearly no nutrients in it unless I put them there.  I knew better and yet I listened to them...... [ouch]

Here is my old way and the way I am back to now.... dig the hole.... throw a few shovels full of composted manure -straw etc in there.... put the tree in -- a bit of soil ... more manure, then fill it up with soil.  It works for me and the tree.  Keep it alive first then let it look for more dirt.



The cows came down the hill when they heard me working... thought they could con me out of more hay, but I didn't give in so they watched me a while then wandered off....hopefully back up the hill.

[ben2go]

That's kind of a scary sight seeing how much material slid off the side.We have areas around here that cave a dump that much material in road ways.It will kill someone in a car,I can't think about what it would do to some unexpecting person standing there.


After posting about the cows in mud and looking through your post about digging,my house decided to make me go dig.The house has old black iron and cast iron fittings.A coupe years ago a section collapsed and by pure luck,I discovered where it collapsed.Well I thought the same thing happened again,so I called a company to scope the main drain pipe.I saved $150 to $200 by digging the septic tank door up by hand.To much liability for company employees to hurt themselves operating a shovel.I did get lucky again.The scope couldn't make it up the pipe because the pipe was to narrow.What!!?A 4 inch pipe is to narrow for a 3/4 inch camera on a 1/2 inch cable?Not another collapsed section of pipe.Out came the power snake and a cutter blade.After about 1.5 hours,blurp blurp,out came probably 20 gallons of built up sludge.After the clean out,the pipe was given a clean bill of health,so to speak.

To keep from jackin Glenn's thread I will post a link to my digging with pics and more info. http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=174374

[Sassy]

Don't worry about hijacking the thread, Glenn's always doing that    Went to your link to the tractor forum - sounds like you had a fun day!  Sorry to hear you have knee & back problems - it really interferes w/life doesn't it? 

Right now we have some very stormy weather - wind blowing like crazy, snowed during the night but now drizzling & grey outside.  So we're both sitting in our recliners typing on our computers    Glenn checked on the cows but they weren't around.  The wind generator is working just fine!

[Cowboy Billy]

Sure is a lot to read through here Glenn.

   I haven't heard of EM but it sure sounds like it would be helpful to me. Charcoal is very good for the soil too. Promotes good microbe growth and helps nutrients from leaching away also called biochar and terra preta.

   It sure is relaxing watching animals graze. I put in a few deer feed plots last year and it sure was nice to just watch them eat. I have pictures of making it here http://www.outreachoutdoors.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3144

   You did a great job keeping your floor flat and level its not easy I know. I see are working with what looks to be a shale type rock. Most of what I work with is clay silt and sands. I keep my spoils piles at least two feet from the excavation more if I have a lot from a deeper hole. Rather than sloping the sides I prefer to bench. That way if something should give way and slowp off the next bench will tend to catch it rather than gaining speed until it hits the bottom. I did a quick search on excavating safety that shows some benching.  http://www.hgtvpro.com/hpro/pac_ctnt/text/0,2595,HPRO_20196_55073,00.html?c=43048&videoid=66990

  Can't wait until I find where build your building structures.

Billy

[glenn kangiser]

Everything from useful information to useless drivel, Billy.  

Here is a link to our discussion and educational info on EM.  EDIT: Silly me- Sassy says I forgot the link....[ouch]

http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=9956.0


 I'm sure the EM would work well with the biochar.  EMRO says the goal is to promote the growth and establishment of colonies of good microorganisms.  It can work to reduce smells from landfills and sewage plants also.  They have a special product than can be used at sewage plants as well as in septic tanks, though the original  EM1 reduces sludge also and is the basis for their other products.

Myo said he even learned things he didn't know from things we have posted in this thread.  Hopefully we all continue to learn more about it and benefit from it.  Myo first introduced it to me as a product used all over Asia and Myanmar where he is from but not well known in the US.

Great thread and pix on the feed plots, Billy.  Here in the Peoples Socialist Republic of California, the Comrade Game Wardens will send you to jail if they catch you actually feeding the deer or wild life, though I don't see them being able to stop you from making a meadow that was desirable to them.  Actually we have so many deer here in the hills that they are rather a bit of a pest but with the economy the way it is it seems they are thinning down.  Not that anybody around here would poach them if they were hungry....  

I haven't hunted since I was about 16 or so .

I shot a few spots on the excavation with the laser and marked numbers on the ground with lime,  then came back with the Bobcat and knocked the high spots down first with the jack hammer then cleaned out with the smooth blade adapter on the bucket.  You are right on the soil/rock type.  It is a shale with the hardest being a rather soft slate.

You are correct on the safest way to dig - benching is best.  Here it is just me nearly all of the time and I am working inside a fenced area so am limited in where I can put spoil.  The client, a friend, does not want to destroy any more of the natural scenery than necessary as well as stay under the radar.

Good link on the safety info and I would encourage anyone excavating to follow those guidelines.

After another cleanout with the Bobcat,  I will be installing the French drains, piers,  posts, girders, beams and shoring that will become the cabin, preventing further caving problems.  The caving did occur exactly in the places I suspected it would.  I am not a soils engineer but have worked with it enough to realize where the hazard areas are.  Of course there are still danger areas until the shoring is in place.

If you click the small slide show link at the start of this thread - page one, you will see some of the early framing.  Other than that, I started my place before I joined this forum, so that is why I decided to get permission to post instructional pictures from the owner of the place I am working on now.  That way I can post my methods for others to learn from as well as incorporated new and sometimes better things I have learned over the years....so, most of the early construction information and methods are coming to this thread soon.

Stay tuned... glad this information is of interest to you and others, Billy.  

Also, Sassy says you might be interested in My $200 Two Story RV garage thread when you run out of stuff to read on this thread.

A link.... http://countryplans.com/smf/index.php?topic=1166.0

[glenn kangiser]

That's kind of a scary sight seeing how much material slid off the side.We have areas around here that cave a dump that much material in road ways.It will kill someone in a car,I can't think about what it would do to some unexpecting person standing there.


After posting about the cows in mud and looking through your post about digging,my house decided to make me go dig.The house has old black iron and cast iron fittings.A coupe years ago a section collapsed and by pure luck,I discovered where it collapsed.Well I thought the same thing happened again,so I called a company to scope the main drain pipe.I saved $150 to $200 by digging the septic tank door up by hand.To much liability for company employees to hurt themselves operating a shovel.I did get lucky again.The scope couldn't make it up the pipe because the pipe was to narrow.What!!?A 4 inch pipe is to narrow for a 3/4 inch camera on a 1/2 inch cable?Not another collapsed section of pipe.Out came the power snake and a cutter blade.After about 1.5 hours,blurp blurp,out came probably 20 gallons of built up sludge.After the clean out,the pipe was given a clean bill of health,so to speak.

To keep from jackin Glenn's thread I will post a link to my digging with pics and more info. http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=174374

Unexpecting person could be squishy person, Ben.  Part of the reason for my time between excavation and working was for storms and to let any weak areas do their thing.  They do not announce what they are going to do 30 seconds in advance so you can get up out of the way.  Even after a decent time period, some risk remains and I check the wall with the Bobcat bucket as well as cave off fractured areas from the top when I see them.

The sides of this excavation are pretty risk free due to the structure of the soil layers but the front and backwalls still need to be watched.  When I get the Bobcat back up there I will check all danger areas and taper back areas as necessary for safety.  Not even I want to be squishy.

EM helps dissolve sludge in Cow Manure pits even eliminating the need for machines when applied heavily enough.  Not sure if it would help reduce plaque on the inside of a cast iron pipe sewer though.   

We do send a bit through for our septic tank and leach field de-sludging health though just in case.  I reminded Sassy to take some to our other place next time as it does have problems.

[glenn kangiser]

Good thing I ate this last night....



I wanted some ice cream and all that was left was vanilla so I had to make a Banana Split with lots of toppings, whip cream , cherries and coconut...

Why was it a good thing?.....

Because I just got back from three hours of chasing these guys and I needed the energy.



They had been doing good, but the storm softened the ground and one of the electric fence posts fell down..... an open invitation to take a 3 mile (by road) cross country jaunt.

I had seen them down a road from the mountain top but by the time Sassy and I got there and checked down that road a mile or so, they had decided to visit another neighbor.  

She said ... they went that-a-way so we headed on up the road following cow tracks.....hmm

Looks like they went up past Crazy Ellen's.  No problem .... she was kicked out of there last year.  They were standing at the end of the road about a quarter mile past Crazy Ellen's former camping spot, so we got their attention with the hay and grain and started leading them toward home.

We took them back through the neighbors place so it was only about a mile back.  No herding them in this wild country.  Generally they make a break for it and take off anywhere you don't want them to go.  I had a couple minor successes herding them but still had to chase them around several times.  They are good until something they like better than the hay comes along.... nice green pasture grass makes them lose their concentration....

We chummed them all the way home with hay and grain and finished getting them incarcerated just as another snow storm started. A fun little three hour diversion with lots of exercise for me.... [ouch]

[John Raabe]

Sounds like the #1 Grandpa deserved a treat.  

I'm sure, economically, that's the hard way to make a hamburger.

[glenn kangiser]

Got to admit that Banana Split was pretty good.

My uncle told me if I wanted to get rich not to try to do it with cattle.  He's about 96 now and I guess his kids are chasing his cows, but it didn't kill him in fact it may have kept him alive.  Cows always need you for one thing or another so you don't have time to kick the bucket....

Rich...

I don't want to get rich... just raise a few of my own cows and have them keep the grass mowed down to prevent summer fire danger.  I didn't think they could eat that much that fast though.  I would say they could have eaten 40 to 60 acres this winter if I had it.  Four cows with three of them being little Dexters.  Our grass is a bit thin here on the mountain though.  These things are mowing machines.  Everyplace they go they do an excellent job though and they don't slack off or even ask for a raise....just more  food.

If I count my time, fence materials, feed, grain,etc.  that hamburger probably costs around $100 a pound..... but the fun and entertainment has to be worth something.... hmm

Guess I better get after fencing off the lower forty. [ouch]

[John Raabe]

Yep - I've never had big animals, but I know there's a lot more there than just walking hamburger. Peoples relations with their animals keep both of them alive.

[glenn kangiser]

After a bit of hanging out with them, you get to know what they are thinking. [idea]

That crazy heifer is the one I need to watch when I'm out in the wild with no fences.  They follow for a bit then she decides she likes something a little better over there......

You get to where you watch their heads - what they look at ... what they think they are going to do, then you circle as widely as possible and get to the back quarter behind them and slowly move in.  A false jerky move while in front of them and circling can send them running several hundred feet in the wrong direction.  Had that happen a couple times today.  Actually I did not slip up but one spooked and took off while the others followed, then it was a big circle around to get into the proper position and one more time get them headed up the right direction. 

Bad thing is when they run down the hill you have to run farther, control them then move them back up the hill to where you started from...and not lose them again if that is possible....It is like a challenging game with your opponents having a bit of thought capacity of their own... [ouch]

Enough thinking like cows and counteracting their thoughts and moves will eventually get them back into the field or corral they are supposed to be in.

Too much thinking like them may make you end up getting a plate full of hay for dinner.....

[glenn kangiser]

Heading out to the lower fourty.  Putting fence down the SE property line from the road.  Should be nice ....a few trees, brush and about 40% grades ......

Started last night with the chainsaw clearing a few limbs and brush.  Line of sight and running a tight wire seem to be the best way to get a straight line from two known property points.  Over hills and big rocks is a lot harder.  Hopefully I can get a few pix showing how steep it is.  My work was cut short about a half hour before dark last night.....

Tell me.......Why is it that whenever you get way down the mountain carrying a chainsaw and no paper with no place to hide, that  "that irresistible urge" strikes.....

[PEG688]

Glenn you should look into a team of these,



  http://www.youtube.com/embed/KTM-EzD4pgg

Think of the things you could pull with them, and they'd cut your grass as well!

 

[glenn kangiser]

That was really cool, PEG.  I have a friend with a couple of draft horses, but... I don't have enough feed for one...

I have had thoughts of harnessing up my little Dexter Cows to a plow and seeing what I could do...... I was inspired by Myo's pictures of their water buffalo for Rice farming..... 



Wouldn't I look cool with a couple of Dexters harnessed up like that....

[glenn kangiser]

By the way... I got the property line cleared and  laid out this morning and a few posts put down to give me a reasonably straight fence on the line. 

I'm not screwing off.... It's just an early lunch break and a stop for more materials.... had to check in though.....

[glenn kangiser]

Got the first two barb wires and about a third of the posts in but finished them after dark.  Two more and a bunch of posts to go.  

It is steep enough I can't get the Bush Hog on it and even if I did I could only go straight up and down.  Checked the angle with my android and it said it was 26 to 27 degrees, which puts it at about a 60% grade or about the same as a 7/12 pitch roof.  I have to carry the posts down - usually around 5 to 7 at a time as I am usually carrying other things too.  Working by myself I find it easiest to do one wire at a time, stretch it then clip it to the posts adding posts each trip down the hill.

I forgot to take a pic of the way I brace my T posts at the ends but will get it tomorrow.



Actually the fence goes a bit to the left from the post you can see - not as much scenery that way though.  About 100 feet into those trees is a small gold mine - haven't found any they missed though.

There is a cool pile of rocks on the way up the hill - about 8 feet tall I think...



...and earlier today I planted a few more vegetables as well as checked to see if the bees were pollinating the pluots.  What I found instead was some type of fly doing it... or maybe it is just a different type of bee.....



...but a quick check on Google showed that other bugs including flies can pollinate flowers.